contracycle

No - when the US lies and bullies to get support from the UN, fails, and goes ahaead anyway, that is bad.

Saddam did not proclaim to the world that he was invading Kuwait in the name of democracy. I don't think he ever felt the need to hide behind that figleaf.


I'd like to borrow that mind-reading machine, if I may. Speculation as to other peoples mindsets is dubious at any time, but especially so when we are talking about institutions. Pinning a whole argument on what you think Aziz thought is not very string. Unless you can you can show me your mind-reading machine, that is.

And yet, when anyone points out American crimes, its always "so aeverything the US does is bad huh, you just hate the US", yada yada bullshit.

The point is not that Saddam was bad; do you really think those who opposed the war thought otherwise? The point is that this is primitive demonisation, an emotive appeal, and bad politics: because you are proposing to go and kill a whole bunch of Iraqis, not just Saddam. In fact, you felt justifed in killing Iraqis who may have been perfectly innocent, just becausae they had been consripted by Saddams regime.

Vorkosigan

The war began in 1980, not in the 1970s, and Iraq's decision to invade was taken earlier in 1979, without US government approval. Hussein sold it to his supporters within the Ba'athist party as a way of dealing with the internal Shia problem. See Dilip Hiro's discussion of it in The Longest War.

Washington may have known of Iraqi plans, and felt that they had some advantages for the US -- the Iranians would run out of spares for their US weapons and Carter would be able to trade spares for hostages, but instead the Iranians approached the Vietnamese. In any case Washington's public line was hostile to Baghdad -- we had no formal relations with Iraq -- and it was not until later in 1981 that various events drew Washington in more. The US also continued to sell everything but weapons to Iran (US weapons companies sold to Tehran on their own without gov't approval or knowledge).

Vorkosigan

Vorkosigan

We're discussing the completely different Gulf War I, so why the non sequitur?

Another non sequitur.

You can at any time. It is called Google, and contains Aziz's words and actions.

I can. Just load up google, type in Baker Aziz January 9, and read some of the quotes and cites from Aziz.

Another non-sequitur.

Again, we're discussing the justifiable and ethical Gulf War I, not the evil and stupid Gulf War II. In other words, you've put up yet another non-sequitur.

Vorkosigan

Ultron

So you're a defender of Saddam Hussein? Tell me you're not serious here.