Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Infinity Lover · 08-29-2002, 05:06 PM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...couldn't Jesus be just a lame Socrate- rip off?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, because History confirms that he did exist - and that he upset a few people
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Agreed

The resemblance between the two biographies is striking though when you look at it.

The manifestation of God Socrate referred to, by the way, was what he called Deamion, the mystical inner voice.

One could also say Jesus was someone with a very strong 'god' inside of him.

When push comes to shove, if someone MUST be preceived to be 'godly' before you take notice of his words, and truelly admire his deeds...
...what does that tell you about your perception of people? And more importantly, what does would Jesus have thought about such a perception?

Could you, for instance, still harbour the same love and admirations for Jesus, if he turned out to have been the bastard son of a rapist? Could you still hold Mary in equally high esteem had she been the victim of a rape?

If Jesus ab-so-lu-te-ly HAS to be the son of God, in your minds eye...

...what does that say about you?

godfry n. glad · 08-29-2002, 05:21 PM

NOGO did state:

Quote:

You are contradicting yourself. If the trinity is like H2O ie there is one compound with three states ice, water, and vapour then refering to H2O in the plural would be ridiculous since there is only one H2O.

Actually, I think that the three states of water (H2O) are solid, liquid and gaseous.

Rather than the approach you've taken, I think the analogy fails in that although water can transition from one state to another, it cannot be all three at once. It can only be one of the three at any given point in time, dependent upon temperature and pressure.

The trinity, on the other hand, claims to be contemporaneously coexistant, no matter the circumstances.

Thus water and the suppositious trinity are not analogous.

godfry n. glad

Jayhawker Soule · 08-29-2002, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by godfry n. glad:
<strong>The trinity, on the other hand, claims to be contemporaneously coexistant, no matter the circumstances.</strong>

Sort of: Jesus the gaseous icicle ... Got it.

Aerik Von · 08-30-2002, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter Kirby:
<strong>Aerik Von, joking or serious, that post was not appropriate in BC&A.

best,
Peter Kirby - moderator</strong>

I am quite sorry, it just came to me after being preached too about the "end of the world" for an hour or so so it seemed funny at the time...

NOGO · 08-30-2002, 05:17 AM

Quote:

DavidH
You must ask yourself this question, was Jesus saying that he wasn't good? Or was he rather showing the man that if he was to call him good, then he must recognise him as being God.

Your logic is faulty here.
Jesus says that only God is "good".
Jesus objects to being called "good".
then
Jesus is not God.

How this is twisted into the exact opposite of what it means is beyond me.

NOGO · 08-30-2002, 05:26 AM

Quote:

DavidH
Nobody will ever bye that explanation. Prove to me that this existed in the ancient times - in every text written by an ancient King that I have read he has never referred to himself as "we" or "us".

That's an easy one.

Point 1
The Jewish people, who by the way wrote this text, believed in a single God. This distinguished them from other people around them.

Point 2
The Bible states in many verses that Yahweh is one, there is no other.

Point 3
The Bible also uses Elohim (plural)

Point 4
For centuries Israelites and Jews did not see this as a problem or contradiction and went on believing in a single God.

You can draw your own conclusion.

NOGO · 08-30-2002, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Godfry
Actually, I think that the three states of water (H2O) are solid, liquid and gaseous.

Rather than the approach you've taken,

Actually this was DavidH's analogy.

NOGO · 08-30-2002, 05:44 AM

NOGO:
Why does the Son who is a member of the trinity of God need to be led by the Spirit of God who is another member of the trinity? The Son is also God needs to be led by the Spirit of God !?!?

DavidH:
Since the Bible doesn't give an explaination for that I can only give you my opinion on that. But all I know, is that the Bible -especially the NT makes it very clear that Jesus is the Son of God and that God and his Spirit are distinguished.

All you have done is restate Christian dogma you have not in any way answered my point.

NOGO · 08-30-2002, 05:53 AM

Quote:

The Father and I are one.

For the Father is greater than I

DavidH:
Jesus said that I and the Father are one. Therefore he is stating that they are both God, but in saying this he is showing that although they are both God, they aren't the same.
That is Jesus confirming the doctrine of the Trinity.

Nonesense!
The two statements contradict each other.
A = B
contradicts
A > B

Christianity as a Jewish sect was born in confusion and contradiction. The trinity is just a poor attempt at fixing it.

Radcliffe Emerson · 08-30-2002, 09:26 AM

If this hasn't been posted, check out this link:

<a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa.htm" target="_blank">http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa.htm</a>

The pagan origins of the Christ myth are fairly obvious.

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08-29-2002, 05:06 PM	#41
Infinity Lover Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,047	quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...couldn't Jesus be just a lame Socrate- rip off? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No, because History confirms that he did exist - and that he upset a few people -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Agreed The resemblance between the two biographies is striking though when you look at it. The manifestation of God Socrate referred to, by the way, was what he called Deamion, the mystical inner voice. One could also say Jesus was someone with a very strong 'god' inside of him. When push comes to shove, if someone MUST be preceived to be 'godly' before you take notice of his words, and truelly admire his deeds... ...what does that tell you about your perception of people? And more importantly, what does would Jesus have thought about such a perception? Could you, for instance, still harbour the same love and admirations for Jesus, if he turned out to have been the bastard son of a rapist? Could you still hold Mary in equally high esteem had she been the victim of a rape? If Jesus ab-so-lu-te-ly HAS to be the son of God, in your minds eye... ...what does that say about you?

08-30-2002, 05:44 AM	#48
NOGO Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 1,562	NOGO: Why does the Son who is a member of the trinity of God need to be led by the Spirit of God who is another member of the trinity? The Son is also God needs to be led by the Spirit of God !?!? DavidH: Since the Bible doesn't give an explaination for that I can only give you my opinion on that. But all I know, is that the Bible -especially the NT makes it very clear that Jesus is the Son of God and that God and his Spirit are distinguished. All you have done is restate Christian dogma you have not in any way answered my point.

08-30-2002, 09:26 AM	#50
Radcliffe Emerson Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: the dark side of Mars Posts: 1,309	If this hasn't been posted, check out this link: <a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa.htm" target="_blank">http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa.htm</a> The pagan origins of the Christ myth are fairly obvious.

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