Freethought & Rationalism Archive

snatchbalance · 06-19-2002, 04:54 PM

When I was younger, I would often travel thousands of miles, on a whim, just to see something I hadn't seen before.

People, I believe, have climed mountains, and sailed around the world, and completed many other large undertakings, all on a whim.

To will something, force, in one form or another, is required.

SB

victorialis · 06-20-2002, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by snatchbalance:
To will something, force, in one form or another, is required.

Interesting. What sort of force? I'm thinking of force here as anything that overcomes inertia. Anyone who wants to disagree, please do so.

Is a focused will not a force in itself? Or a locus of force, at least -- a point around which different sorts of force can be arrayed.

A thousand-mile journey such as SB describes has to overcome a great deal of inertia. Yet SB feels these excursions were prompted by whim.

[ June 20, 2002: Message edited by: victorialis ]

snatchbalance · 06-20-2002, 06:29 AM

victorialis,

Quote:

A thousand-mile journey such as SB describes has to overcome a great deal of inertia.

Yes, force is required to overcome inertia, resistance, craving, etc.

If one forms an idea and acts on it; there is nothing to overcome.

sb

DRFseven · 06-20-2002, 07:00 AM

Quote:

John: I agree whim can be regarded as a subset of will, but surely desire is the "want" rather than the motivation (will, whimsy) to satisfy it.

Reward motivates the will. When my three-year-old granddaughter sees chocolate pudding in the refrigerator, she acquires a will for chocolate pudding; she is said to be quite willful about it. She desires chocolate pudding because her past experiences with it have set up a reward response. That pleasure jolt is what motivates her will/desire to eat the chocolate pudding. As I'm sure you understand, based on your past posts, there is a competing dynamic going on in this scenario. While quite vocal about informing us of her desire for the pudding, she is (barely!) able to refrain from actually climbing up and getting the pudding, herself. What motivates this restraint? Again, past experience of doing versus not doing "the right thing" provides expectation that restraint = greater reward to punishment ratio.

John Page · 06-20-2002, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by victorialis:
What sort of force? I'm thinking of force here as anything that overcomes inertia.

I believe in the UK this sort of force is termed "a mental kick up the bum".

Cheers, John (ex Wulfrun)

[ June 20, 2002: Message edited by: John Page ]

Mr. Sammi · 06-21-2002, 04:19 AM

I am currently thinking, WHIM can be an unproven goal, or an action with unproven results. I think the following statements are implications of the new experience. It can be done by whim because the option exits. I can be done by whim because it leads to a new experience. I can be done by whim because the other options do not lead to success for the individual who will act on a whim.

Sammi Na Boodie (still thinking)

Mr. Sammi · 06-26-2002, 04:27 AM

I came to the conclusion that "A whim is an inconsistency in the will", or "a deformity in the will". Whim can then be attributed to odd forms of reasoning. Say, at a job interview, the boss does not hire you because she just named the new baby your name.

Of course things like doing it for the sake of doing it are odd forms of reason. Are they not?

Thanks to everyone who helped me arrive at this position. Thanks for all the posts. Unless anyone can find some point of disagreement - ya ba da ba will do.

Sammi Na Boodie ()

WJ · 06-26-2002, 06:05 AM

In as much as I think that both involve emotions as to its motivation 'to be', I am wondering if perhaps another distinction relates to them being voluntary v. involuntary. It seems much of the will to be is involuntary, and the whim to be is voluntary. Say the absurdity of life creates a desire to not want to be, is that whim or will?

Or, if they are based upon desires and pleasure, how do we separate them? I think there must exist a pre-programmed will to be regardless of life's curcumstances which go beyond any notion of animal instinct or instinctive behavour relating to survival in the jungle. Some thing will's us to live and experience pleasure.

Also, if consciousness creates both whim and will, I wonder which takes primacy in all human motivational behaviour? From some reason, I think the will is first, but yet many survive on whim quite successfully. Perhaps the will drives whim.

Too, I wonder what it would feel like to experience life in pure whim? Would we be dazed and confused or completely content, happy and focused? In this regard, I suppose it's more of an abstract ethical question.

I don't know, just more thoughts...

Walrus

[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: WJ ]

06-26-2002, 06:05 AM	#18
WJ Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 812	In as much as I think that both involve emotions as to its motivation 'to be', I am wondering if perhaps another distinction relates to them being voluntary v. involuntary. It seems much of the will to be is involuntary, and the whim to be is voluntary. Say the absurdity of life creates a desire to not want to be, is that whim or will? Or, if they are based upon desires and pleasure, how do we separate them? I think there must exist a pre-programmed will to be regardless of life's curcumstances which go beyond any notion of animal instinct or instinctive behavour relating to survival in the jungle. Some thing will's us to live and experience pleasure. Also, if consciousness creates both whim and will, I wonder which takes primacy in all human motivational behaviour? From some reason, I think the will is first, but yet many survive on whim quite successfully. Perhaps the will drives whim. Too, I wonder what it would feel like to experience life in pure whim? Would we be dazed and confused or completely content, happy and focused? In this regard, I suppose it's more of an abstract ethical question. I don't know, just more thoughts... Walrus [ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: WJ ]</p>

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06-19-2002, 04:54 PM	#11
snatchbalance Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: CT Posts: 333	When I was younger, I would often travel thousands of miles, on a whim, just to see something I hadn't seen before. People, I believe, have climed mountains, and sailed around the world, and completed many other large undertakings, all on a whim. To will something, force, in one form or another, is required. SB

06-21-2002, 04:19 AM	#16
Mr. Sammi Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montr�al Posts: 367	I am currently thinking, WHIM can be an unproven goal, or an action with unproven results. I think the following statements are implications of the new experience. It can be done by whim because the option exits. I can be done by whim because it leads to a new experience. I can be done by whim because the other options do not lead to success for the individual who will act on a whim. Sammi Na Boodie (still thinking)

06-26-2002, 04:27 AM	#17
Mr. Sammi Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montr�al Posts: 367	I came to the conclusion that "A whim is an inconsistency in the will", or "a deformity in the will". Whim can then be attributed to odd forms of reasoning. Say, at a job interview, the boss does not hire you because she just named the new baby your name. Of course things like doing it for the sake of doing it are odd forms of reason. Are they not? Thanks to everyone who helped me arrive at this position. Thanks for all the posts. Unless anyone can find some point of disagreement - ya ba da ba will do. Sammi Na Boodie ()

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