Rusting Car Bumper

So are you suggesting that morality is not relative to facts? Thats preposterous! Obviously one would not even know if one had been immoral or if others had been immoral if one does not examine the facts.

Obviously moral principles would be different if we had different facts. If it was a fact that humans were bullet proof, then the moral judgements about pointing a gun at someone would be different. You can't divorce principles from facts.

Morality requires a weighing of principles AND facts. Further it requires an effort to judge what facts might be more or less likely true in light of limited information. Simply punting and saying "well I can't have all the facts and therefore I'll go on principles" seems a height of naivete.


Nobody HAS TO determine all of the consequences to certainty. That was never stated and you are suggesting a straw man if that is what you implied. However, we can suggest more or less likely outcomes.

"Regardless of the consequences"??? That's ridiculous. So you are suggesting now that there are actions which are free of moral consequences and thus moral considerations are irrelevant? No action can be done "regardless of the consequences."

The fact is that Sakpo had at least two choices. Turn the information over to the school admins or tell Blue_Metal that he had the intention to turn it over. Why did he pick one more than the other? I think the latter was the moral choice. The other dances around possible consequences.

Thats gibberish.

First I didn't condemn anyone as I stated that that wasn't my intention. Please dispense with the subtle attacks. In any case, this is a false analogy for driving a stolen car is illegal, and in the case of the plagarism the person has been caught. If plagarism was illegal and the person had not been caught then Sakpo would be jsutified of course. Neither of those are facts here. (There are those pesky facts getting in the way again.)

DC

Bree

I think it's interesting that, after one member of IIDB acts on something he thought deserved action, suddenly people are afraid that others will step up to the plate (as Sakpo has done) and start reporting other members left and right. There is no indication of this whatsoever. As far as I am aware, what has happened here is one of a few isolated incidents. It should serve to remind us that what we say on the Internet is most certainly NOT private, and while we may not think it is moral for someone to invade our privacy and pass our postings along, it can and does happen. There is no law to prevent this. The only thing that CAN be done to ensure our 'privacy' (even on a public message board) is that we all make sure we don't post anything that we don't want coming back to bite us in the ass.

Yell at Sakpo all you want, but at the end of the day, it's his decision and he has to live with the consequences, whatever they may be.

99percent - your post was fantastic.

Rusting Car Bumper

That however does not lead to an interesting discussion of what may or may not be ethical.

I am not exagerrating when I say I thought it was one of the most poorly reasoned posts I've seen on here about ethics.

DC

ImGod

All actions contrary to the written laws, covenants, or guidelines of the country, county, city, or organizations you belong to are deemed wrong. Because society said so, that's why.

So all should be reported or we open ourselves to arbitrary interpretations of the rules.

Truth: I've stolen a $50,000 tractor before. It was stolen according to the letter of the law when I removed it from its rightful owner without his permission.

Reality: They were not home and I borrowed it. I went down the road, pulled my car from the ditch and returned it to the original position and went home. It occurred almost 20 years ago when I was young, stupid and there were no cell phones. There is no physical evidence and I couldn't even tell you who owned it. Had he come home when I was gone, he very easily could have called the police.

Had I not informed you of the reality, you may have thought the need to report me to someone (or you still might just to teach me a lesson). There would be little chance of me being prosecuted due to the lack of physical evidence and the time frame involved, even with a pseudo confession from me.

Therefore, I would encourage anyone who sees fit to notify the authorities of my actions to think through any unforeseen negative consequences of publicly accusing me of theft from the position of anonymity. These may include personal and professional issues unrelated to the issue of theft. There may be things unknown to you regarding the reality of an issue that may change your perception if you knew more. Therefore, caution should be used.

Her college addressed what B_M did wrong academically. What she did wrong here was be dishonest to herself and us, while divulging too much personal information when trying to work through a personal problem. In return, we publicly flogged her with words and potentially divulged her personal religious beliefs to the Dean of her college.

I think some people here are beginning to understand that they too may be divulging too much personal information.

Goliath

Sakpo,

I just wanted to chime in to let you know that I wholly approve of your sending the links to the dean of BM's college. In fact, if I had known about the threads where BM lied to the entire II about plagiarizing, I would've done the exact same thing myself.

Blue_Metal got off extremely light! If I were in charge at her college, I would not only have expelled her, but I would have attempted to blacklist her from as many colleges as possible. Plagiarism is a horrific cancer on the academic world. It needs to be stamped out, not mollycoddled and encouraged.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Daggah

This thread should never have been posted here. Is not one of the first rules of the private forums:

"Issues discussed in the private forums should not be repeated where non FPF members may read or overhear them."

That is exactly what Digital Chicken has done.

Daggah

D'oh, forget what I just said. I failed to note that Sakpo admitted to it in the public thread Blue Metal started. I thought he had only admitted that in the private forum. Nevermind.

Sorry I falsely accused you of wrong-doing, DChicken.

livius drusus

[deleted for mootness]

Writer@Large

I make the following statement as an individual, not as the voice of the Admins (Just so there's no confusion).

IMO, Sakpo did nothing more than forward information that Blue Metal publically posted, and that the dean could have stumbled upon at any time. BMetal told us about the plagiarism charge; she posted a complete copy of her paper, which confirmed the act; she told us what school she attended; she even posted her first name. She did all of this on a public message board, all with no fair expectation of privacy beyond the assumption that neither her instructor nor her dean read the IIDB. But anyone could have come here and read it. The dean himself could have been surfing the web, and for whatever reason, found it himself; figuring out who she was from all that posted information would have been a no-brainer.

Was what Sakpo did nice? No, but neither was BMetal's plagiarism, nor her lying here. Was Sakpo's action justified? Maybe, but there is never a justification for plagiarism. Was Sakpo's action wrong? Absolutely not, which can't be said for BMetal's actions with her paper, nor with her actions here.

Honestly, as a teacher, if I hadn't been buried in finals at the time, I may have done it myself. Plagiarism is an epidemic in our schools, and it needs to be stamped out.

Speaking as both individual and Admin: I won't support any sort of reprimand against Sakpo for doing it. I'm certainly not going to support stripping Sakpo of Mod duties.

--W@L

pug846

So 99%, assuming you think it's immoral to break the law, and it appears elsewhere that you would agree with that statement, then when can we expect you to tell the "truth" to the authorities in turning in all of our members who have committed homosexual acts in states that have laws against it?

Better, yet, will you be reporting everyone here who has admitted to underage drinking? What about people who have admitted to petty vandalizm? I'm sure you agree that all of those actions are "wrong."