excreationist

tronvillain:
...You wouldn't be tied down and gagged, you'd just be paralyzed. As far as I know, a paralytic agent is normally used along with a more conventional anaesthetic...
Well assuming that that paralytic agent doesn't risk my life I'd use that. If it relaxed my muscles then the pain wouldn't be as bad. Even if my muscles were tense but unable to move, I don't think the pain would be that bad. (I think a lot of what's bad about pain is our physical response to it)
I wouldn't have the midazolam then... I think the end of the pain would bring pleasurable feelings of relief and accomplishment.

emphryio

Deathroll said:
Nice topic. I think the FEAR of pain is the real problem. If experiencing this pain increases your future fear of pain, that's not good.
Fear of pain/death is the greatest cause of unhappiness. (Maybe the only cause?)

Otherwise remembering the pain in the future, (or trying to), should be a cause for happiness because look how great you feel now!

Personally, actual pain has never increased my own fear of future pain/death. My fear of future pain/death is more based on associative things.

Like information I've absorbed that tells me: Lose job, etc, etc, end up starving to death in the streets.

I think continously fearing pain/death, like you might do as a solier in the middle of a war, that could cause permanent harm. But concerning this operation; have it really quick before you have very long to dwell on the fear of pain, and I don't think there would be any permanent mental scars.

Of course car accident victims, etc have claimed post traumatic stress disorder. I don't know. I kind of question their motives/honesty.

emphryio

Ahh now that's the kind of stories I like to hear. My worse pain would be food poisoning. I seem to get it once every year or so. I always start questioning what's the point of living during it. I haven't thought of a truly good reason yet. (During the sickness that is, afterwards the subjective question is no longer relevant to the new me.)

punta

I agree. I think it is fear and stress that cause flashbacks and PTSD rather than physical pain itself.

I have a condition where I experience pain attacks like clockwork for up to months at a time (clusters). During the cycle the pain is everything. Once the cycle has run it's course the associated stress and fear are what I remember best. And I appreciate the condition of non-pain that much more.

I suspect you are far more likely to suffer trauma from sudden violent events than scheduled pain, no matter how bad. Psychological torment is what people might need to forget.

excreationist

emphryio:
Fear of pain/death is the greatest cause of unhappiness. (Maybe the only cause?)
I think unhappiness involves feeling "ripped off"... like things not being fair or not getting what you want. (The old "desire is the cause of suffering" thing I guess)
e.g. say you started giving kids chocolate on a regular basis, which gave them a lot of pleasure. If you took that away from them or even threatened to do that, they'd feel unhappy. (assuming they felt that they needed the chocolate to stay happy/content) Or for another example - people might enjoy their youth - then feel bad at the thought of eventually losing their youth - and even their own life.

[ July 15, 2002: Message edited by: excreationist ]</p>

emphryio

That's a good point excreationist. But I think what I'm talking about may be the real underlying factor to happiness. I'll have to think about it for awhile. Don't have time presently.

Maybe the losing of some toy/thing just suggests a decrease in power/life force. This then suggests the entity is moving in the direction of greater pain or towards death. Therefore fear of pain/death or "stress" is increased.

In other words, if a stimuli is removed from the entity. It has less information. It has less to be aware of. It "exists" less. Therefore it is closer to death. If it had never had the original stimuli it wouldn't be unhappy upon losing it, because of course happiness is completely relative.

But I'll have to think about it.