livius drusus

You know flattery will get you anywhere with me, babe. As for the good doctor, I doubt he's gotten much of anything up since Jebus touched him in that special way.

Chuck

I think that the case is quite different:

Bad fathers lead to Christianity. I mean, consider this hypothetical situation:

Your father has a history of abusive behavior. Once, he flooded the entire world. He's massacred millions. He impregnated your mother while she was married to another man. And the whole circumcision thing is just too weird to get into. And talk about a STICKLER. All of a sudden, he tells you, his only begotten son, that you have to go and die for the sins of the world. Real fair. And then there are still a few smart asses who refuse to acknowledge your father's "greatness."

I think we see where bad fathers have gotten us.

Chuck

philechat

If a more comprehensive study come out and there was a correlation of bad fathers and atheism, then there are several interpretations of such correlation, IMO:

1. Atheists sees that the childhood authority is flawed, and become less trusting in authority.

2. Fathers in a religious nation like the US were most likely theists, and atheists have conflicts with father therefore the subjective evaluation of their father being weak, inadequate, or evil.

3. Weak fathers force the child to become independent in an earlier age, and these people maintain independent views after entering adulthood.

The interpretations were not necessarily "bad" at all. Similarly, I always love to point out the correlation of atheism and Eysenck scale for psychoticism, as found in many studies. Again, both "positive" and "negative" interpretation could be inferred from the higher level of psychoticism in atheists, as high psychoticism were found in mentally ill patients and creative artists/scientists alike.

[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: philechat ]</p>

brighid

This mans conclusions are laughable considering the millions of children each year that are abandoned by their fathers along with the millions of children who are abused by a parent … You would think with this sort of conclusion the ranks of atheism would be bursting at the seams from all the new converts each year who suffer from poor parenting and absentee fathers. What EVER!

Brighid

Talulah

Brighid, that was a point I wanted to make. Why, if this man is correct, are there so many theists then? 50% of marriages end in divorce, so I would assume that would create a sizable population of children who at some point in their life, felt betrayed and let down by one or both of their parents. And why aren't all these atheist's?

Another important thing, I think, is the amount of Xtains who 'testify' of going to the faith because of problems in their lives, including abusive overbearing fathers.

so, I think he uses reasoning that is really suspicious.

DRFseven

You're missing the point, babelfish, which is that counter examples do nothing to diminish the correlation between factors and results, no matter whether those results are perceived as positive or negative. One factor could promote two OPPOSITE results, because these factors don't exist in a vacuum; they work in conjunction with other factors. So "bad fathers" could be a contributing cause of both atheism and theism. Controlled studies would have to be carried out, duplicated, predicted in order to know if the theory is valid.

Perchance

I think the objection to such a generalization is justified if words like absent, bad, horrible, or broken are used. Most people assume these words mean a relationship that causes active evil, or are used to hearing the words in the context of "social problems" such as: drug abuse in children, children forming gangs, single mothers struggling to raise children without any kind of support from their fathers, and so on. If atheism/non-theism is lumped in with other "problems," then people who might otherwise be neutral on the subject might come to think of it as something that should be "prevented."

Besides, it's a generalization. If nothing else, I think it should be objected to on those grounds alone.

-Perchance.

DRFseven

Skipping breakfast causes people to perform poorly on tests. It also causes people to perform WELL on tests. Both of these statements are true, yet neither one is a generalization. It would be a generalization to say that skipping breakfast causes ALL people to do poorly or well on tests.

If Vitz's results are eventually corroborated and a statistically significant percentage of atheists are found to have experienced broken father-relationships, are you saying that you will consider the results invalid because they seem to you to render a negative opinion toward atheists?

The methodology in scientific studies is to disregard agendas and bias. Science cares only about results, not human desire regarding those results. I say, bring it on. Whatever science has to say about atheism (or religious belief), I want to know.

Godless Sodomite

I have always thought that I was an atheist because no god has ever been demonstrated to exist, but now I know better. Anyway, I should have figured this out on my own. After all, I understand it's my mother who made me gay. Apparently, wanting and having sex with other men has nothing to do with it. I should have known my father was at fault for something.

Now, on whom may I lay blame for my chocolate addiction? What would Jesus say?

-Jerry

Sowthistle

My dad drove me here, let me out and then DROVE off!

8)

ST