wildernesse

Better is a value judgement. Others may not share your values.

For something to be efficient, you must agree on what you are trying to acheive. Only after agreeing on the outcome, can you evaluate which method takes less effort.

--tibac

SecularFuture

wildernesse
How about a better, more productive, humanity? I don't see how believing in supernatural concepts has any use in bringing change and progress to a natural world.

Aradia

It's quite telling that you view it as a game. Particularly when this conversation has been one of the few times I haven't just been fucking with people's heads.

Why should we not try to help magical thinkers think more critically? I think we *should*. That's not what I disagree with. I think *everyone*, even critical thinkers, should learn to think even more critically than they already do. You need to stop assuming things about me. What I disagree with is the idea that *theistic religion* is inherently bad, that it needs to be replaced, that it should be replaced, that it's unhealthy, and that no good can come of it.

As for your second question:

Sports cars are more efficient than muscle cars.
Muscle cars are more efficient than sports cars.

Kassiana

SF:
If only you can find the evidence convincing, that means that it is all in you head.

Kass:
Ooo, really?! So my husband is not the man I love, the man I find immensely attractive, simply because that's my opinion based upon my personal experiences with him, especially if no one else in the world finds him attractive? COOL!

Please keep on making these ridiculous statements. They're very entertaining, although they don't do anything to advance your arguments or convince me that you're anything but a self-righteous twit.

Aradia

Wildernesse seems to understand.
You don't. If I may be so bold..... (wait for it.....)

You need to think more critically. *grin*

A better, more productive humanity starts with the individual. If individuals aren't better and more productive, humanity will never be better and more productive. Theistic religion can help make an individual better and more productive.

SecularFuture

Aradia
You’re contradicting yourself. You believe that magical thinking should be replaced with critical thinking, but you don’t think we should try to replace theism, even though it advocates the use of magical thinking. Why?

This is not answering my question.

Why do you believe critical thinking is more efficient than magical thinking?

(YES/NO) Are some people afraid to do things because their religion tells them that it is wrong?

SecularFuture

Kassiana
Believing in an emotion and believing in a supernatural superman are two completely different beliefs.

Aradia

No, I'm not contradicting myself. You are simply caught up in dualistic thinking. I seriously doubt that you've understood a single word I've written.

It did answer your question. The problem is that you won't think *critically* enough about it, and you want me to spoon-feed the answers to you.

Try *thinking* about my answers for a change.

wildernesse

Better is a value judgement. Others may not share your values. To understand productivity, you must agree on of what you want produced. Progress towards eliminating human limitations is your goal, but you have not said why that goal is what we should strive for, except that it would make us better people. Better is a value judgement. Others may not share your values.

--tibac

SecularFuture

wildernesse
What’s better? Living sick and weak, or living healthy and strong? I'm sure almost everyone could agree that living healthy and strong is better than living sick and weak, right? Are we ever going to find natural answers by looking into imaginary supernatural worlds? No.

What do you think doctors are doing? They may not exactly be trying to “eliminate” our limitations, but they are trying to find ways for us to work around them. Transhumanism is all about this.