Sci_Fidelity

Posted by Rational BAC:


Really? Then why do 45% of americans think the world was created less than 10,000 years ago? How many people think the flood actually occured?



I sincerely hope you're right.

wildernesse

Hey, well 34.4% of Americans are over 45! My statistics are from the US Census. Where are yours from?

--tibac

Conchobar

Immortality is the key to belief and the reason for fear. Christian fundies fear evolution because it reasonably rules out a personal Adam and Eve. If no Adam and Eve, no Original Sin, DEATH, but an inherited penalty of DEATH. Oi, but a redeemer is promised. He is to be a god-man born of a god impregnated human virgin. He is to die and then be resurrected. Prior to that he also resurrects Lazarus. He achieves and confers immortality. But it all begins back in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve and their sin.

So they can't have the slightest contradiction in the Bible. So they fail to see the 550 odd contradictions and errors we see in the Bible. Evolution blows out Genesis 1 and 2, and Science, geology, with palaeontology rules out Noah's Flood (Genesis 7). If the very first book of the Bible is bollocks, then the whole sheebang is up to question. And that means that immortality is threatened.

Our Evolution is a life threat to their delusion of Immortality.

Conchobar

Conchobar

I think that it is tied into the 60 year decline in science teaching in America. In the test of 12 year students from 18 industrialised countries (mostly Europe plus Japan, maybe S.Korea) of science and math. American students finished 18th.

Their biology text books have to meet the demands of Texas and have only a brief paragraph on evolution with a disclaimer that "it is ONLY a Theory." How can one expect students not to be ignorant of science?

I learned about evolution in detail in Catholic Schools through college in Europe (Ireland and Scotland). Christians that I knew had no problem with evolution because they didn't take the Bible literally. An intelligent person cannot take the Bible literally.

I have noted in prior posts that cultural religiosity varies inversely with the level of scientific literacy. In the UK, Netherlands, Scandinavia, France, New Zealand, and Japan, where religiosity is weak and no longer a clear majority but the people are highly informed on science.

In the USA, where over 90% are theists, the rate of science literacy is very low, the lowest of the "western world."

A recent study by the (American) National Science Foundation showed that 70% of Americans were ignorant of fundamentals of natural sciences and mathematics. American humourist, Jay Leno, on his show commented on the study. He reported that "30% (of Americans) don't even know what 70% means."

Only 48% of Americans knew that electrons are smaller than atoms.

Only 45% could define the essentials of DNA in inheritance.

Only 22% could define a "molecule."

Only 33% understood the "scientific process" and how to conduct an experiment.

25% of all US professionals with Doctoral degrees are now foreign born, 45% for Computer Science and Engineering, 27% in Biological Sciences.

The USA will need to and will depend on a foreign supply of science professionals into the future. Hazeltine, of the Human Genome Sciences, Inc., comments "as economic conditions improve abroad, its less likely that these foreign scientists will come to the United States." His very important research company, if foreign scientists stop going to America, would drop productivity by about 50% by his own estimate.

The problem as viewed by the National Science Foundation is in the school system. 31% of Math teachers and 20% of science teachers in grades 7-12 lack a major or minor in those subjects.

While Fundamentalists are gobshiting about mandated prayer in the schools (putting God back), they are missing the point. You don't need God or forced prayer in your schools. You need to invest money to train bright high school graduates to major in science and math. Then you would have enough graduates to enter Ph.D. science programs. But in order to achieve this, you have to pay teachers competitive salaries, test their skills regularly, and invest more in grants to qualified American students who will enter Ph.D. programs in Geology, Molecular Biology, Neuroscience, Evolutionary-molecular Genetics, Chemistry, and Mathematics.

You need to fix this problem for two reasons; one is the maintenance of American standards of living, being competitive in the market of ideas and scientific achievement. The other reason is that the general pathetic level of science illiteracy makes people gullible. That is why they believe in UFO's, Bigfoot, ghosts, ESP, and religious fundamentalism. The latter would threaten the freedom of women, the rights of free speech, and various areas of personal freedoms reminiscent of the 12th century European Christian Monarchies. Remember that they were famous for perfecting methods of torture, painful executions for suspected religious dissent, and women for the flimsiest of reasons, and the abuse of children.

Act before it is too late. Fix your schools in order to fix the rampant mass superstition and ignorance of the population. Ignorance is NOT bliss; it is a ticket into the Third World.

Conchobar (most of this from another poster with the ID of Saoifiach)

wildernesse

Biology texts are chosen by the community school systems, and while the textbook companies do cater to their largest customers, there is a range of textbooks to choose from and the choice is dependent upon the school systems. Not all textbooks contain a disclaimer, either within the text or added after publication. Many advanced biology classes use the same textbooks as college campuses, textbooks that are not skewed to the Texas public school behemoth.

Anyway, evolution/science are not the enemies of religion or necessarily polar opposites.

Please provide sources for your statistics.



--tibac

Zora

Hello, Sabine Grant....

No...I did not say education equals intelligence. I said a large percentage of the population is not of the highest intelligence. Period.

I said that 50% of the population reads at or below an eighth grade level. Do you think these people are critically reading the Bible for themselves? Or, are they accepting somebody else's interpretation and becoming familiar with only the "good" parts somebody else has picked out for them?

No, education and common sense are NOT the same thing. So I assume that at least some of the educated people who attend regular Christian services lack common sense, as do some of those conducting the services. So, when Christians point to "scientists" who believe in creationism, I must assume that at least some of these scientists don't have enough sense to pound sand in a rathole.

Surely you are not suggesting that education does not complement intelligence or that intelligence is not capable of self-education outside a university. Library cards in the US are free.

When a Christian member of federal government stands up in front of his peers, preferably on national TV, and states this nation affords the same rights to atheists as to theists because our Constitution insists on it...and when I hear a majority of Christians voicing their approval and support, I will quit lumping you all together as "they." At your church next Sunday, spearhead a letter writing campaign to your respective legislators demanding repeal of all laws discriminating against atheists in all states. Send hundreds of copies to Texas. Send copies to 100 Christian websites. Post a copy here.

I am basing my opinion of your beliefs on the book you claim is divinely inspired and the words that came out of your savior's mouth, according to his disciples. (I've read Calvin, Wesley and others.) I am further basing it on the historical actions of Christians who based their actions on the same book/savior/reformer.

Pehaps you could all wear T-shirts with your beliefs on them, so I will know which Christians want me dead, which ones just want me to burn in hell eternally, or which ones think that maybe Christ was really only a philosopher and hell isn't real. Oh, yeah...then there is the issue of my being under demon attack as mentioned in a recently received religious tract. Could you clear that up?

My criticism of Christianity is the same one of 2000 years ago, still unanswered. If you have not read any of the ancient criticisms, and if your belief system does not encourage the study of these criticisms, I stand behind my statement that you rely on ignorance. (not the same as stupidity)

I do not hate/dislike/despise Christians. But, I can tell you from a lifetime of firsthand experience I do not trust Christians to stand up for me or protect me. If the government came to put me in jail as an atheist enemy of the nation, I don't think there would be a majority outcry. A few Christian friends who know I'm a good person might protest and try to help but would quickly abandon the effort if they came under scrutiny and feared suffering the same fate. Guaranteed.

Its easy for the majority to say the minority is "paranoid" and the majority of the majority are just nice people. Then read all you can about mob mentality. Then, just for giggles, try representing yourself as atheist to a group of Christians you don't know. Stop in at the first Pentacostal church and tell them you are NEVER going to be a believer and their beliefs are all BS. Feel the love!

Sorry you're so "weary" of being judged by your belief and not your actions and being lumped together with all those nasty fundamentalists. Are you being persecuted, or reviled? (I forget.) Sucks, doesn't it???

Cipher Girl

Hi RationalBAC

You said:
You are making a big to do about nothing.

Interesting comment. You want us to simply shut up and sit in the back of the bus?

I for one, am a little paranoid, but I think I'm entitled since I was threatened at work and told that there was a "bullet waiting for the back of my head for people like me." I take that shit seriously. Good thing I helped get the guy fired about a month after that.

So you think everyone should be good little German and go along with the crowd?

Rational BAC

Zora--

I detect a bit of oversensitivity and a bit of a chip on the shoulder---someone knock it off--- to your post.

Why on Earth would you want to go into a Pentecostal Church and tell them that their beliefs are all BS?

Also not all Christians are narrow minded fundamentalist atheist haters. Actually very few are. I have had excellent discussions involving atheists and Christians without anyone hating anyone.

Truly------the vast majority of mainstream Christianity is going to insure that none of the things you are so afraid of happening will happen.

Nobody would come to your defense if the government put you in jail for being an atheist?? That has got to be the silliest thing I ever heard.

Really you worry too much about things that will never happen.

Rational BAC

Cipher girl--

I am glad you got that guy fired. Nut cases like him should not only be fired but should be put away on a funny farm somewhere-----whether he was a theist or non-theist.------he was most definitely loony tunes.

Unfortunately with a big population, you are bound to have some who are one brick short of a load.

Rational BAC

Going to make one last general post and then hang it up for tonight.

We have a slight fundamentalist and conservative movement going on right now in this country. It has happened before. It will happen again. Many such movements happened in the 19th century. And in the 20th century.

But the pendulum will swing back. It always has. It always will.

Compare the 50's to the late 60's and early 70's and you will see a fairly quick pendulum swing in that way.

We will muddle through this latest fundy trend just as well as we always have. Chances are the next generation will rebel against the previous generation, as all younger generations are wont to do and-----

----there probably will be a very skeptical, I don't believe anything, anti-clerical, anti religious generation coming up again in a very few short years (relatively speaking). And we will not have to do anything to encourage or discourage that. It will just happen.

And all these tight-asssed fundies you see today will end up looking at their rebellious, very skeptical offspring, scratch their heads and say "What the hell !!!!??"

The main thing that has made this country work so well is that which seems so hard for you to understand. In the long run (and that is what really counts) Americans are--more than any other people--live and let live types. You do your thing and I will do mine. And everyone (including atheists) will do fine. And this nation will be fine.

And none of that very basic stuff will ever change in this great nation of ours.