Aradia

Nothing needs to replace christianity. What needs to be replaced isn't christianity (what Jesus taught), it's corrupt christian churches who instill fear in order to convert for their own self-serving needs. If it weren't for church corruption, we wouldn't have all the things that atheists like to point to in an attempt to condemn christianity (Crusades, the Burning Times, et cetera).

Magus55

They hypocrisy on this board is rediculous. Atheists don't like Christianity, a big reason being because it teaches Christians to preach the religion on other people - yet here you are, trying to make the world atheist, or at least the largest major religion into something else. Stop trying to bring up hypotheticals of how you can destroy the "empire" of Christianity, Christianity is here to stay for as long as the world is around ( not very according to the Bible ).

If you don't like Christianity or Christians, fine whatever - but stop being a hypocrite and trying to push your "humanitarian" and "secular" ideas on us, to get rid of Christianity for good.

Tony

“And the Christian answered," You have to die, and then resurrect 3 days later!"”

Die, resurrect…

OK, IF I want to become a new Jesus. But we’re talking about REPLACING Christianity. So, it will be DIFFERENT rules.

“Why do religions exist in different cultures all among the world?”

Because it’s hard for many people to live without having ALL answers to ALL questions. Someone has to be educated, honest and brave to be comfortable with uncertainty. It’s seems easier to make up the missing answers. It’s harder in reality.

By the way, DIFFERENT religions exist in different cultures at DIFFERENT times. Which one is correct? Whose god is truer? I don't have to answer this question, because of I’m an atheist. It’s easy for me.

But if I would want to become a religious person – how can I choose? It’s like choosing a mortgage on line – it would be some competition! I’ll get a religion with the lowest interest! Or the biggest cash back! Or free appliances!

A development of science, psychology and education will replace all religions. And it will be sooner than you might think. Religious bosses are trying to adapt their obsolete theories to fast changing reality. It’s so funny to see them trying so hard to keep people in control! Can you imagine somebody really believing TODAY in the original religious theories that were developed a few thousands years ago? With all those: Earth is flat and sitting on the elephants and the big turtle?

Come on…

diana

Hahahaha. Good one, Magus.

Or were you serious? "Trying to make the world atheist"? Who said that?

You did notice you posted the above at Internet Infidels, didn't you? You don't seem to have fully grasped the concept of "hypocrisy." Have no fear. I'm here to help.

Hypocrisy is when I condemn you for the exact same thing I'm doing. For example:

When I knock on your door to talk you into not believing in Jesus, then condemn you for knocking on mine to bring me The Good News, THEN I am a hypocrite.

When atheists support a bill that specifically excludes faith-based initiatives while condemning Christians for supporting a bill that is limited to faith-based initiatives, THEN they are hypocrites.

When I show up where three or more are gathered in God's name to tell them God doesn't exist, THEN condemn you for showing up where atheists gather to tell us God does too exist, THEN I am a hypocrite.

Just in case you missed it, I am not the hypocrite here. Nor are any of these people who are here, at Internet Infidels, whose mission is to promote secular humanism, hypocrites for coming here, with like-minded people, to discuss their ideas.

Also in case you missed it (based on my observation that you seem to miss a lot), the OP wasn't aimed at recruiting Christians or overthrowing Christianity. It was an interesting psychological view of what Christianity does for people, and why, even if it was proven God didn't exist, there would still be people who believed.

If you'd like to be free of feeling as though we're "pushing" things on you, uninvite yourself to this board, my friend.

We won't come knock on your door. We won't come to your church and announce you're all deluded. We won't try to pass laws that keep government assistance from those who do good deeds because they happen to have faith.

Consider looking up the word hypocrisy. Or just look in the mirror.

d

diana

Oh, and also...I think this thread would go better in GRD.

d

AquaVita

For some reason, this thread was posted, then moved here twice.

I merged the two threads here.

Hero

Thanks for the reply, but I would like to make several comments here.

1. Afghan
Not to be facetious but... why would we want a joyful life without fear? Bear with me here.
What is it about this state of affairs that is desirable? Why should we prefer a life without fear to one with fear? Or to put it another way, is fear itself the root problem?
And
In other words, a possible atheistic life philosophy is about acceptance rather than denial. In this respect, it is much like Taoism. We recognise our own nature, accept the constraints upon it and, by so doing, we are freed from the fear that we might not be something that we are not.

Comment: Why we want a joyful life without fear? It is because it is our natural instinct! Everyone in this world try to pursue joy and happiness instead of pain and suffering! And why should we prefer a life without fear to one with fear? May I ask do u want a life full of joy or full of fear and suffering? The problem lies in the way in which we find happiness. It is inevitable that something undesirable would happen in our life, but how can we face those sad things, eg loss of relatives, happen in our life? Christian prefer to believe their relatives and friends would enter the heaven once they die, no matter whether it is true or not, this belief makes them easier to accept their fact. But for atheist, just in case, if your loved one dies shortly after the marriage, how can u accept that? Can u reassure yourself by just saying, ¡§Accept it! At least, she won¡¦t go to the hell!¡¨. U won¡¦t be reassured by atheist concepts. Never. I know fear is removed once we accept the facts, but how can u accept the facts is the root of problem.


2. rainbow walking
And why do you think christians are happier than atheists? Sure it takes a while to shake yourself loose from the baggage of such beliefs but if you are genuinely dedicated to truth you will and you will discover that it is no more difficult to be at peace and happy as an atheist as it is a christian.
And
Ask them if they really know what God's will for their existence is? I bet you'll never find a christian who can give you a direct definitive answer. Why? because they've never heard such a being give them any such direction.

Comment: Usually, when nothing undesirable things happened, atheists¡¦ life is just as peaceful as Christian. But when bad things happened, atheists would often find themselves hopeless and have no meaning to live on. As I am living in HK, during the economic crisis, many ppl lose their business and have no religious belief, they find themselves have no way out and choose to commit suicide. But for religious ppl, they could have more social and spiritual supports from the church so that they seldomly do fool things. My point is that without religion, we have little strength to face adverse situation. To me, Christianity is just like a spiritual morphine, in which it can be applied to ppl who are hurt emotionally. For atheist belief, unfortunately, it seldomly achieves this effect. I am not saying Christianity is better than atheism, I am just saying that they are better in reassuring ppl who are in trouble.
For the God¡¦s will for their existence, it is sure that no any Christian can give u a definitive, distinct answer. What they can give something vague, eg I live in order to honour my God. Although this doesn¡¦t seem to be persuasive to atheist, but what meaning of life can atheism give ppl? We are just a matter of particles and our existence just occur in chance! What are value of human beings? What is the meaning of life? Nothing! Once u lose your value in society, eg car accident causes u to be paralysed, u will be abandoned by majority of atheists and have no meaning to live on. Your living just cause troubles to society¡K¡K¡KWhat I am trying to say is that although Christianity could only vague meaning for your existence, it is already better than atheism which could give u nothing.


3. lpetrich
quote:So even if we, as atheist, found concrete proof that shows the non-existence of God, what can we use to replace religion?
Why should "something" be necessary?

Comment: It is because humanity face uncertainity of future day by day, no one knows what things would happen to him, when would he die, when would he get in trouble..... Disease, death, loss of relatives etc all haunt human beings so that human must find some sort of relieve, no matter whether it is spiritual or physical. So many ppl would turn to religion and want a forever life without fear, and most prominent religion is Christianity, which represents human's rebellion towards the nature [in which human denies he would have an ending someday and what he possesses will be lost someday]. Religion exists because there are demands on religion.
If we not use religion, what else can we use to face our life? When something terrible occur to you, you certainly will try to find some relieve. If not use religion, what thing u use to relieve yourself?

Quote: How can we develop philosophical belief and value that can allow us to have a joyful life without fear?
Like how is that a problem?

Comment: It is our natural instinct to find joyful life! And religion tries to eradicate fear from ppl¡¦s life so that they live happier, how can atheist achieve this aim?

Quote: If there is no religion, can we have meaningful life? We live for what?
Like what? Is one supposed to perpetually await marching orders?

Comment: What do u mean? U mean we have no meaning to live in this world?? A lot of ppl do not accept this fact [though it may be true]. If we cannot find any meaning in atheist system, it is better to turn to Christian instead, meaning of our life can give us direction and to guide our behaviour, it also gives us courage to live on when something bad happen to us. Though life doesn¡¦t necessary have a meaning, it is better to find one.

quote: Especially when something terrible happens to us and living becomes a painful experience, do we need to live anymore?
If Heaven is supposed to be so great, then that's all the more reason to commit suicide.

Comment: That¡¦s not religion about. Except some extreme evil religion, all major abrahamic religion such Christianity do not allow suicide.


4. Koyaanisqatsi
Meaning is what you ascribe to life, not what life ascribes to you (or what cult leaders impose upon you).
So, what can replace christianity? My left shoe would work, so long as I take the time to create a whole fantastical mythology around it. All I'd have to do is first make you fear the loss of my left shoe and then impose a threat of "terrible consequence" for not believing in my left shoe, with a final resolution of "you win anything off the top shelf in the after life (once you're dead and my claims can't be verified)" for you to follow my left shoe and voila!

Comment: It seems that u mixed up the cause and effect relationship. It is because fear drives ppl to create religion, not religion creates fear!! For example, almost everybody in this world fear death, so ppl try to create a religious illusion to reassure ppl that they can still live after death. It is not because religion first lie to u that u can live forever in heaven if u believe in jesus, so u fear that u will die and live in hell!

5. Tony
A development of science, psychology and education will replace all religions. And it will be sooner than you might think. Religious bosses are trying to adapt their obsolete theories to fast changing reality. It’s so funny to see them trying so hard to keep people in control! Can you imagine somebody really believing TODAY in the original religious theories that were developed a few thousands years ago? With all those: Earth is flat and sitting on the elephants and the big turtle?

Comment: No, never can science and philosophy replace religion. If it is the case, then the no of Christian would decrease in these few decades as science developed so fast. Unfortunately, no of religious ppl still increasing. Why? Because human has his limitations!! Until science can completely remove death, disease, suffering, unequal distribution of resources etc¡K¡K in this world, religion can never be replaced.

lpetrich

Hero:
But for atheist, just in case, if your loved one dies shortly after the marriage, how can u accept that?

What is one to do -- lie to oneself?

Yes, l-i-e, lie.

Plato did view religion as useful as a Royal Lie, however.

One can always believe in an atheist sort of afterlife, where one becomes a ghost and does things like haunting houses.

... But when bad things happened, atheists would often find themselves hopeless and have no meaning to live on. As I am living in HK, during the economic crisis, many ppl lose their business and have no religious belief, they find themselves have no way out and choose to commit suicide. ...

And what makes "Hero" so sure of the lack of religion of those who commit suicide?

And there are lots of other ways to have a life outside of one's career.

... but what meaning of life can atheism give ppl? We are just a matter of particles and our existence just occur in chance! What are value of human beings? What is the meaning of life? Nothing! ...

As opposed to believing that we are a bunch of wind-up toys produced by some temperamental superbeing?

Instead of awaiting marching orders from On High, we ought to create our own purposes.

Once u lose your value in society, eg car accident causes u to be paralysed, u will be abandoned by majority of atheists and have no meaning to live on. Your living just cause troubles to society.

I've never seen this one before.

... Disease, death, loss of relatives etc all haunt human beings so that human must find some sort of relieve, no matter whether it is spiritual or physical. ...

So what? And does anyone ever say

"See you in Heaven"

?

And why not commit suicide so one will join one's dead friends and relatives?

And religion tries to eradicate fear from ppl¡¦s life so that they live happier, how can atheist achieve this aim?

What's your point? That the religion business is desirable as Opium for the People?

If I wanted to believe in a paradisiacal afterlife, I'd convert to Islam. Humping houris seems a LOT more fun than singing hymns all day.

(earlier) If Heaven is supposed to be so great, then that's all the more reason to commit suicide.

That¡¦s not religion about. Except some extreme evil religion, all major abrahamic religion such Christianity do not allow suicide.

Which has always seemed very contrived to me. If one is convinced that one will be much happier after death than before it, then the thing to do is commit suicide.

Tony

Hero:

“No, never can science and philosophy replace religion. If it is the case, then the no of Christian would decrease in these few decades as science developed so fast. Unfortunately, no of religious ppl still increasing. Why? Because human has his limitations!! Until science can completely remove death, disease, suffering, unequal distribution of resources etc¡K¡K in this world, religion can never be replaced.”

I said psychology, not philosophy. When someone learns how people think, it will be easier for someone to understand how religions use the psychological rules to influence people. Religion uses brainwashing to control people. But even brainwashed people can recover if they learn the basics of science and psychology. Religion uses psychology to comfort people. So, if someone knows the basics of psychology, he/she doesn’t need religion. Also, the knowledge of the basics of psychology helps someone to SEE the psychological tricks used by religion. It’s similar to magician tricks. If you don’t know how it’s done – you’re amazed. If you do know how it’s done – you’re bored with the same tricks being done over and over again.

I don’t know where you got your stats, but I read that the number of non-religious people increases, not decreases:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheist4.htm

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...d=970599119419

A few decades are not enough time to get rid of thousands of years of the religious brainwashing. It will take longer than that.

“The survey and news reports about the study, though, noted that one of the most significant findings involved growth in that segment of the adult population "identifying with no religion." In 1990, 14.3 million or roughly 8% identified with this category. The new ARIS count now shows that the non-believer population has grown to 29.4 million, roughly 14.1% of the American community.” (Source: http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheist4.htm )


8% –1990
14% – 2001
So, 2001-1990 = 11 years; 14%-8% = 6%.

X – The number of years to reach 100% non-believers in US.

So, 11 years – 6%
X years – 100%.

Simple proportion: X = (11x100) / 6 = 183.33 years.

In Canada:
“Canadians citing no religious affiliation comprised just 7 per cent of the population 20 years ago. By 1991, it was 13 per cent.
…the number of Canadians claiming no religion more than doubled in 13 years to 26 per cent in 2000.” (Source: http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...d=970599119419 )

So, 13 years – 26%
X years – 100%

X – The number of years to reach 100% non-believers in Canada.

X = (13x100) / 26 = 50 years.

I like these numbers so much that I’ll start a new thread.

But the more important thing is not the numbers. The most important thing is that religious bosses can’t kill thousands of people like they did a few centuries ago. Can you imagine the Godless march during Inquisition? All these people would be burned alive. Can you imagine the Inquisition court even considering removal of “under God”? Clearly religion is loosing its grip on the progress of our civilization.

Science doesn’t need to remove death and other problems. People need to learn the basics of science and psychology, be honest and brave and accept the reality.

Opera Nut

There are many things that can replace Xtianity. Not just other religions. An example from a famous musician. I saw this guy perform a full piano recital onstage when he was a mere 83 years old.


Interviewer: Mr. Rubinstein, do you believe in God?

Arthur Rubinstein: No, sir, I have much more important things to believe in!!!


:notworthy