ohwilleke

luvluv, I wonder how many people don't have sex before marriage?

I would imagine that it is a pretty small percentage of all marriages, and hence a very select group -- probably mostly Orthodox Jews and hyperconservative Christians who are staying within the fold. These people might have stable marriages in part because they really have no alternatives to staying in a marriage, no matter how bad it is, within their relatively stable, insular communities.

I'm not sure that the same divorce prevention effects would do much to help us ordinary folk who live in the modern world otherwise. I strongly suspect that it isn't just the abstainance that is saving the marriages. I would be surprised if refraining from pre-marital sex, would provide the same divorce rate change that shows up in the statistics, if otherwise, you are much more like those who have pre-marital sex in worldview.

Psycho Economist

Hey, found the full National Center for Health Statistics report in all 106-page glory. <a href="http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_23/sr23_022.pdf" target="_blank">Adobe Acrobat File (5.5 MB)</a>. Not to put a downer on things, but i have to play skeptical statistician for a second. They report things in terms of (cumulative, i guess) probabilities instead of regressors, and they don't talk about correlation of variables... which makes it hard to see how much variance (likelyhood of divorce) is overcounted across all their variables.

However for women... Catholics (37% divorced within 10 years) are less likely to get a divorce than Evangellical Protestants (40%) who are as unlikely to get a divorce as other religions (Islam to Judaism to Buddhism). They both are less likely to get a divorce than liberal Protestants (44%), who are less likely to get a divorce than the unaffiliated (56%).

Those who did not cohabitate before marriage got a divorce at a rate of 31%, those who did got divorced at a rate of 56%.

That study does not specifically look at pre-marital sex and marriage. Which is not surprising considering how hard it is to get people to answer questions about sexuality.

For myself, I would have really liked to have seen the multivariable regression data, especially those covariance tables. But then again, i'm a Psycho Economist

Psycho Economist

More than you think... and fewer than luvluv thinks. Though if you averaged them you might come pretty close.

tronvillain

luvluv:
I am not going to call them repressed or liars, but I am going to call the vast majority of them victims of religious indoctrination.

Viti

I don't know about the other women here...but I would have been PISSED to have that shitty of an experience on my wedding night. The first time usually sucks...it did for me and I wasn't even in a car or any other horrid place many girls lose their virginity.

The Other Michael

Hi luvluv,

If people who want to enhance their chances of their marriage surviving should restrain from premarital sex, shouldn't they also avoid beingevangelical Christians , since a study (which I could probably find mentioned elsewhere on IIDB but don't have the time to hunt out at this time) showed (IIRC) that they are more likely to divorce than non-religious people?

Would you advocate to your co-religionists of that stripe that they cast aside their beliefs, or at least become more liberal in them, in order to have a better chance of their marriages surviving?

cheers,
Michael

That's the Barna study and it is referenced <a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/ifm_divo.htm" target="_blank">here</a>.

[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: The Other Michael ]</p>

Glory

I hear ya! The first time for me was not special or magical or spiritual. It was painful and messy.(In tact Hymen) I was sore for some time afterwards. Not my idea of romance or a wonderful honeymoon. I was also not ready to be open and honest about what I wanted or needed. I certainly couldn't ask questions about what the guy wanted. I think some very unhealthy patterns could have been cemented had I had that experience with my husband. I needed to mature sexually in order to have a good sex life within my marraige. I know that that is not the highest priority for many couples but It's extremely high on my list.

Glory

Answerer

Well, if you bother to look into the Asian context, you will find out that most of them are highly conservative as well(at least those around me are like that). Like the Christians and Jews, most of the Asians controlled their sexual desire because of religious doctrine or cultural influences. But there are some who are idealistic and naive(to me) in their thinkings and prefer to lose their chaste in their first wedding night as a token of love. Lastly, there are a few super-career minded people that leaves sex entirely out of their daily busy lives.
Anyway, I, personally felt nothing wrong by not having pre-martial sex. At least, I don't see any laws in nature which stated that Man must have pre-martial sex.

brighid

I see nothing wrong with pre-marital sex. I certainly did not regret having had it, although in hindsight I might not have had sex with a partner or two had I known what jerks they would be in the end ... I just haven't been able to acquire that ability to tell the future yet

I don't know about the statistics, but of the successful marriages I do know of ... cohabiation and premarital sex were a part of those ... it also happens that those people are atheists and they have been together 12 and 35 years respectively. I know other successful marriages with people of varying degrees of theism and all cohabitated and only one had not had premarital sex. Coincidentally, my husband and his 1st wife did the whole abstaining from sex before marriage and no cohabitation before marriage (because of her religious beliefs and her families) and that marriage was ended after a few short years - one reason being the utter lack of passion and a very sparce sex life after marriage.

I am glad I had the experiences I have had and so is my husband

I think each individual needs to decide for himself/herself what is the best course of action for life, marriage and sex. There will be successes and failures in each case, but I don't think marriages end because of cohabitation or premarital sex. I think this is another case of correlation does not equal causation. I think the statistics would be more telling if it also gave the cause for divorce and if those who stayed together did so not because they were happy, but because of religious or cultural pressures. Plenty of people stay together their whole lives without ever being happy, but do so because of social and religious pressures. I don't consider that a successful marriage.

Brighid

ManM

Aw gee, now I feel all special. And by the way, I'm not worried about torking off God by having sex. I'm more concerned about the harm it can do to relationships. I've seen pre-marital sex turn friends into enemies too many times to want any part of that mess.