Mageth

The person sends him or herself to whereever their basic love is before death.

Cool. I'll be flyfishing for eternity!

ManM

Mageth,
Your fly fishing might make life hell for the PETA folks...

A3

Hi Sid

I quess we don’t all see things the same way, just like scientists. It usually seems the result of emphasizing different passages in the Bible or completely ignoring others. Scientist have it easy because all they have to go by is what can be measured or quantified.
[quote] I can see the world as a whole with all it's peoples and histories (I think someone will write that I can't see everything because I'm not god).[quote]
You certainly can have a broad human perspective on world history and cultures and especially if that is your interest, it will be better than most of us. But I doubt if that is something that makes you a better person.

No, I don’t think so. To me those are human acts or interpretations that have nothing to do with God or a worship of God. What I believe as the best way to worship God is to act and behave towards others and do our work as best we can. IOW be as perfect a human being as we reasonably can be.
Science is great but limited, religion is great but limited. The two, with a small overlap and other areas where they agree make a beautiful whole. We don’t see a perspective because of light or because of darkness but because of a combination of the two. If however people keep taking ,what we call, the parable of Creation literaly it is bound to conflict with science and common sense. What do you think?

Regards
Adriaan

Brahma's atheist

From A3 To many people these really are acts of one god or another as was witnessed in the news of those people swarming to see the 'miracles'. As to the second point that is a pretty universal sentiment and probably has been told to people all over the world by many gods and godlings. People act on it but still end up getting screwed in this life.

Absolutely right.But Creations are the cornerstone of all religions since they show the ultimate power of their god, i.e. creating the universe. All creations come into conflict with science and common sense.
I don't know, does having open eyes and an open mind make you a better person? I don't think it would make you a bad person or 'stagnant'.

From Panta Pei
Is this the back cover of a horror novel? I think it would be a good one. Or are you a Slayer type person?

Thank you for replying,
Sid

HelenM

Sorry, Panta Pei, I missed this response of yours earlier in the week...

Anyway, my perception of such people is that they are desperately unhappy. I mean, who couldn't be, with a hole like that?

Maybe that's patronizing of me to think I understand what's going on inside them.

It's only a speculation and I'm not sure that having it makes any difference except it helps me to retain perspective and realize that it's a terrible way to live.

It troubles me that people get so angry with one another that they wouldn't even want to see someone who has hurt others, happy, even were it possible. People find it hard to forgive and hard to believe people can change.

I was sad to hear all that was said about Timothy McVeigh's execution - especially, that it wasn't painful enough.

Wasn't painful enough for what? For them? Why do they get to decide? What has someone who is outwardly conformist, who hasn't ever committed a civil crime, stooped to, that they would think they have the right to say "not painful enough!" They got his death and still they were angry; they weren't satisfied. They have a hole too, therefore, that is not easily filled...even if they never 'act out' in criminal ways.

People are weird

(Sometimes )

love
Helen

A3

Sid
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So what is your point? In WWII people ate flower bulbs because the were physically very hungry. There are people now that are spiritually starving because the churches cannot tell them anything meaningful about this life or the next or about God. Some indeed go to ‘crying Madonna’s’ while others have themselves beamed-up to a meteor.
Sure, just because you are a careful driver that doesn’t mean you will never have an accident. Life is a series of lessons, some are tougher than others, but at the end we’ll be happy. BTW it is not so tough as it is maid out to be to go to heaven. A person has to really screw-up to go somewhere else.
[quote]A: If however people keep taking, what we call, the parable of Creation literaly it is bound to conflict with science and common sense. What do you think?
S: Absolutely right.But Creations are the cornerstone of all religions since they show the ultimate power of their god, i.e. creating the universe. All creations come into conflict with science and common sense.[quote]
And that is exactly my point too. In itself there is nothing wrong with thinking that God is very powerful. But to take the creation story literally is making God’s Word nothing more than a story book without any Divine message. Only the first sentence can be taken literally, that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. But even that part is meant to be taken as God created the spiritual and the natural world. Everything following that is a description of how God creates a spiritual human being from a natural one (who wants to). The human race has progressed through many stages, as you know, from knowing hardly anything to knowing something. God has always adapted His revelation to what humanity could accept. Just like a parent with the stork or even Santa. God said: there are many things I have to tell you but you cannot bear them yet, but when the spirit of Truth comes.. etc And that’s the way it has always been.
It seems to me that ‘an open mind’ is a great thing to have. To believe something until something better comes along is not only great in science but in religion as well. But just having more knowledge is not enough it depends on what we do with it that counts. We can be an accountant that is pretty honest but switching to a great accounting-software program will not make us more honest.

Helen
You said it! But that is usually because they have made small mistakes which grew to bigger ones. No one starts off by stealing cars. The best thing that can happen is getting caught during the small stuff. (I did)
No one who robs a bank or hijacks a car thinks he is doing anybody a favor or is thinking of anybody else but themselves. That, I assume, is the hole in the chest Panta Pei was talking about. You meet them in traffic, at work, well anywhere there are people. Sometimes people are just misguided. Just because a salesclerk makes you mad that doesn't mean you have every right to shoplift there. Just as with Timithy's execussion. What he did was beastly and teribly wrong but who should throw the first stone?
On that happy note.....

Regards and have a great weekend
Adriaan

Brahma's atheist

From Adriaan The best thing that can happen is getting caught during the small stuff. (I did)

It seems you may have been through some bad stuff in your past. You seem to have found help in Christianity(as aside to one of the inumerable other religions available) so you need to believe or have come to believe that at the end you will be happy.
Does what you've said prove my original statement?Those tough lessons were given by god, presumably the one you now worship. But you've kind of glossed over them with gods 'love' saying that it was a test (forgive me putting words into your mouth) but that god will repay you with a place in heaven for turning to him. Carrot and stick(vice verse in this case). Or have I got it all wrong?
I went through (relatively) bad stuff as a child.I had many gods to turn to incliuding Sri Murugan(my grandfather built a temple to him you know) and his brother Sri Ganesh. But I didn't. How could Brahma put my family and I through that and expect us to worship Him? So of course I don't and it's obvious they and all other supreme beings don't exist.

A3

Hi Sid
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A3: Life is a series of lessons, some are tougher than others, but at the end we’ll be happy.
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Sid: It seems you may have been through some bad stuff in your past. You seem to have found help in Christianity (as aside to one of the inumerable other religions available) so you need to believe or have come to believe that at the end you will be happy.
Does what you've said prove my original statement?
A3: Proof and spirit don’t mix. We are human because of our spirit, not because of our arms or legs or even our brain because they are in different realms.
Sid: Those tough lessons were given by god, presumably the one you now worship. But you've kind of glossed over them with gods 'love' saying that it was a test (forgive me putting words into your mouth) but that god will repay you with a place in heaven for turning to him. Carrot and stick(vice verse in this case). Or have I got it all wrong?
A3: I think our whole life is one long lesson. What we are at the end depends on what we took from those lessons and made our own. God only permits bad stuff if some good comes out of it. So if bad stuff hits us we can react Why the hell me!??? Or, Ok this is a lesson lets assume some good came out of it, what can I learn from it?
Sid: I went through (relatively) bad stuff as a child.I had many gods to turn to incliuding Sri Murugan(my grandfather built a temple to him you know) and his brother Sri Ganesh. But I didn't. How could Brahma put my family and I through that and expect us to worship Him? So of course I don't and it's obvious they and all other supreme beings don't exist.
A3: Well, I can only say that 99,9% of suffering in this world is man-made, in freedom. Evil is allowed to surface so it can be dealt with on a personal as well as global scale. It is this ability to chose that can make us either humans or animals. As long as we don’t know all the answers as to how God works let’s not cast our opinions in stone but keep an open mind, we might not have all the facts.
BTW The facts that appeal to me are from

Regards
Adriaan

[ July 20, 2002: Message edited by: A3 ]

<a href="http://www.ns98.org" target="_blank">web page</a>

[ July 22, 2002: Message edited by: A3 ]</p>

A3

Hi Sid:
The editing didn't work out so here is an add-on
from another post on this site
<a href="http://iidb.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=50&t=000447&p=4" target="_blank">Post</a>

Adriaan

hinduwoman

Christians say God does not send anyone to Hell. Men do it themselves by denying Him. So obviously masochists would try to go to Hell and enjoy themselves. Of course this would make hell pointless. Hmmm..

Let us have a poll --- how many atheists are atheists because they are masochists?