Grizzly

Busted.

You caught us David. We had a 38 yar old atheist named Bob pretend that he was a young Christian girl named Tricia. We had Bob make over 1,000 posts supporting Christianity and religion so that one day, when the time was right, we could give "her" a "crisis of faith" when the right christian came along to try and trap. But you are too smart for us. No doubt, God must have alerted you to this ploy. We have been foiled. Nice work.

Grizzly
Member
Evil Atheist Conspiracy

DMB

Grizzly: You oughtn't to have given us away like this! You are letting the side down!

MrDarwin

Um... not that I want to defend David Mathews at all, but from what I've seen he has been pretty consistent in not trying to convert people, and apparently doesn't believe a crisis of faith threatens anyone with damnation.

Furthermore, unless one or more people have actually met Tricia and gotten to know her in person he does have a point: Tricia may or may not be what she claims to be (any more than the rest of us). I have no reason to believe otherwise (and I do find his claim that he knows Tricia to be an atheist rather arrogant) but I'm thinking here of a friend of mine who was taken in by somebody who represented himself as a high school soccer player who had been diagnosed with multiple sclerosis (or some other disease) and was just coming out of the closet, but over the course of the next year turned out to be a middle-aged man with AIDS who was in a long-term relationship. I thought my friend was a fool all along and the guy turned out to have lied about everything, and the lying continued even after they met in person, over the course of several years. There really are lying, manipulative people out there, which is one reason why I keep a certain amount of personal distance from people I "meet" on the web.

Sorry Tricia, I realize this isn't entirely fair to you, as I don't have any reason to believe you're anything other than what you represent yourself to be. But the same admonition holds for you: you know nothing for certain about David Mathews (or any of the rest of us), so I wouldn't be terribly concerned about what he thinks of you, or with anything he tells you. The web is a great tool for getting information and exchanging ideas, but a seriously flawed tool for making friends and getting emotional support.

not a theist

But that was not his point. He did not claim that she may not be what she seems but that she was not what she seems. He states that she "certainly is not fifteen years old."

While you are certainly right that she may not be what she seems, all of the evidence available to us points to her being exactly what she seems. There is nothing intrinsically improbable in her account of herself being correct and it is in fact the best explanation for the evidence available.
Concerning your friend, you say that: So you already had strong suspicions that he was being dishonest. You don't tell us the details here but you obviously had reasons for your strong suspicions probably relating to possible motive or inconsistent behavior. Does anyone here (other than David Mathews) really have any strong suspicions that Tricia is anything other than what she says? What motive would she have?

While I grant that it is theoretically possible that she is not what she claims, it is unreasonable to claim with certainty that she is not as David Mathews does.
Of course this is wise.
But this is not the course that David Mathews adopts elsewhere when he tries to determine if "Helen" is Helen's real name. David seems to not have your general policy. In fact, if he did, he wouldn't even bother asking Helen since he would know that she could lie.

[ July 21, 2002: Message edited by: not a theist ]</p>

Bree

That's the best advice anyone's given yet!

Honestly David, you're not being very fair. Someone comes with a legit question and all you can do is be flip about it?

Tricia - I hope you've stopped reading Your Christian counterparts are simply muddying the waters, and I'm sorry for that.

Walter_Mitty

Excerpt from Mr. Matthew's web site:

Gee, I think that pretty much sums it up.

HelenM

Originally posted by MrDarwin:
Um... not that I want to defend David Mathews at all, but from what I've seen he has been pretty consistent in not trying to convert people, and apparently doesn't believe a crisis of faith threatens anyone with damnation.

I think he wrote yesterday on a thread in RRP that he believes some people who abandon God might go to hell.

So what you said may not be accurate about him.

Furthermore, unless one or more people have actually met Tricia and gotten to know her in person he does have a point: Tricia may or may not be what she claims to be (any more than the rest of us).

This is a fair point; we can't be certain, ever, can we?

But I have no reason whatsoever to doubt anything Tricia has ever posted, that I've read here, or anything she's e-mailed to me.

So as far as I'm concerned I will give her the benefit of the doubt rather than assuming, like David, that Tricia is a false persona.

I'd say it's wise not to rely on things you are told over the Internet with no independent verification. But when it comes to taking someone at their word or not, when it's not as if we have some big thing at stake, I think it's rather disrespectful not to. I'm sorry if your friend had a bad experience but should all honest people now be treated with skepticism because of that?

The web is a great tool for getting information and exchanging ideas, but a seriously flawed tool for making friends and getting emotional support.


I disagree. I think it can have a valuable role in providing emotional support. I think face to face is best but sometimes the anonymity online can be valuable, for those who are not ready to share with people face to face yet. I'd say it can be a good stepping stone to being more honest face to face with people, about things we might not have been willing to share face to face, right away. So, as I said, I think it can have a valuable role.

Anyway, as you pointed out, the man who lied on the internet lied in real life too. I'd say that anyone who is dishonest in their online interactions most likely has various problems that are not confined to their interactions online.

love
Helen

[ July 21, 2002: Message edited by: HelenSL ]</p>

Mad Kally

I honestly believe that finding the II probably saved my life. I don't know an atheist in real life. I was in the depths of depression, living with my fundie mom, filled with RAGE, and considering suicide. I never knew all you wonderful people existed!

Oh, and thanks for the support you heathens.

edited to add: You too Helen!

[ July 21, 2002: Message edited by: Mad Kally ]</p>

HelenM

I'm very happy it saved your life, Kally!!

(And I'm glad that me being here didn't drive you away, when you had found it! )

love
Helen

Tricia

Wow.

I'm speechless.

Thank you everyone who defended me, because I *am* 15, a female, and a former Christian, thanks to David Matthew's crap. And Dajah, thanks for sticking up for me, you truly are a good friend. (oh, BTW, you can come over next week or something when my room is finished being painted and recarpeted.)

Dear, sweet, lovable David Matthews: You are so full of crap. I can't believe I let you ruin my whole day yesterday. If you want to believe I'm some 60-year-old atheist male pervert, go right ahead. But just in case you have a feel for the TRUTH, you could always read one of my ONE THOUSAND AND FORTY FREAKIN POSTS.

I think I'll log this thread away when I need a good laugh, so thanks David Matthews.

SO VERY SINCERELY,

~Tricia

edited to add an apostrophe. wow, what horrible grammar I have when I'm angry.

[ July 21, 2002: Message edited by: Tricia ]</p>