andy_d

Yes, that could happen, but something else could happen, too.

With the spread into a new environment, it's an excellent opportunity for Buddhism to shed some of the cultural baggage which it has picked up over the years. Many groups of western Buddhists see this and have adopted this approach. It's a worderful opportunity to strip things back to actual Dharma, to brush away the institutionalised aspects. Surely, western Buddhism will have a different flavour from the schools of the east, but it WILL be Dharma.

I think you'd be surprised just how commited to the path most western Buddhists are. I don't think anyone comes looking for a "quick fix". If they did, they'd be told otherwise. In my tradition even our foundational practices take years to accomplish as a lay person. Only those with real committment will be able to follow this through. And then the real work begins.

Monasticism is only one option. IMHO, in the modern world it's of lesser importance than it was in ancient times. While monastries (and there are already some in the west) serve as important centres of learning and transmission, I personally believe that in our times the overwhelming majority of Buddhists will be lay people. Interestingly, the line between lay people and yogis is also getting very blurred.

Shakyamuni advocated the monastic life because it was important in his times. These days lay people have a much better opportunity to make real progress than in, say, 500BCE.

I think one of the enormous strengths of his teachings is the way it has consistently adapted and stayed relevant through many cultures and for an exceedingly long time. There are many different styles practiced by all sorts of people, yet the core is still the same.

Exactly what shape western Buddhism will take, who knows? Most centres of teaching currently are extensions of long established eastern schools, but as time goes on, more westerners are establishing themselves as great teachers and lineage holders. Within a generation or two western Buddhism will be standing fully on it's own two feet. The eastern establishment is very supportive of this.

Whatever your misgivings about the western character, Buddhism is here to stay in the west. I say, give us a chance. We may surprise you

Living Dead Chipmunk

Don't bother. He's not ALLOWED to say anything different. If he does, the Malay police will track him down and stick him into the wonderfully Buddist reeducation camps.

Seraphim

With the spread into a new environment, it's an excellent opportunity for Buddhism to shed some of the cultural baggage which it has picked up over the years. Many groups of western Buddhists see this and have adopted this approach. It's a worderful opportunity to strip things back to actual Dharma, to brush away the institutionalised aspects. Surely, western Buddhism will have a different flavour from the schools of the east, but it WILL be Dharma.

My reply : Opportunity to shred some cultural baggage? Hmph .... How annoying that sounds ... you make Buddhism sound like a recipe waiting to be experimented with.

I doubt when the West strips Buddhism of its "extra" baggage, it will be anything BUT Dharma. In my opinion, it will become an excuse rather than a philosphy.

I think you'd be surprised just how commited to the path most western Buddhists are. I don't think anyone comes looking for a "quick fix". If they did, they'd be told otherwise. In my tradition even our foundational practices take years to accomplish as a lay person. Only those with real committment will be able to follow this through. And then the real work begins.

My reply : Here's someone who has no concept of its own society...

You attend to walk to someone to is taking Buddhism as a "Quick Fix" for his social mishaps and tell him not to do so and expect him (or her) to listen? Sorry Pal ... he won't because in his mind, what is important to him is important, not your preaching. Take a quick look at your society for the past 200 years and you will notice how many people walked to other and explain to them the "errors" of their ways, only to be answered back with "freedom" of speech and expression crap.

Ever wondered why some many cults and idiots who are claiming themselves to be divine or have links with divine appeared in your society in the past 50 years?

Monasticism is only one option. IMHO, in the modern world it's of lesser importance than it was in ancient times. While monastries (and there are already some in the west) serve as important centres of learning and transmission, I personally believe that in our times the overwhelming majority of Buddhists will be lay people. Interestingly, the line between lay people and yogis is also getting very blurred.

My reply : A Monk/Yogi and a lay person have only one difference - One follows Dharma strictly, other still attach to the life and follows Dharma with simple-mindness. If you consider Monasticism (where do you find this words?) to be lesser important now, I guess that is your choice. I for one who is from the East consider Monks to be teachers of society because they left all worldly things and persuade Buddhism wholeheartly. They will bring new meanings to question which society could ask but cannot find a suitable answers.

Shakyamuni advocated the monastic life because it was important in his times. These days lay people have a much better opportunity to make real progress than in, say, 500BCE.

My reply : Nonsense ... time is irrelevant because humans don't change according to time, only their habits and knowledge increases (or decreases according to situations). Just as Gautama went on monastic life over 2500 years ago, people still do so because the questions they have is still the same.

... one of the enormous strengths of his teachings is the way it has consistently adapted and stayed relevant through many cultures and for an exceedingly long time. There are many different styles practiced by all sorts of people, yet the core is still the same.

My reply : Adapt ... Yes, change Buddhism into something else ... No. Theverada, Pali and Zen is simple adaptation of original Buddhism with got adapted with its social condition of the society Buddhism went into. What you are suggestion is changing Buddhism to suit your needs by taking out the important accents of Buddhism - the quest to find answers by oneself - namely the need for Monastic life and quest for mental and spiritual strenght. This is one of the method of getting a "Quick Fix".

Exactly what shape western Buddhism will take, who knows? Most centres of teaching currently are extensions of long established eastern schools, but as time goes on, more westerners are establishing themselves as great teachers and lineage holders. Within a generation or two western Buddhism will be standing fully on it's own two feet. The eastern establishment is very supportive of this.

My reply : I guess Fate cannot be changed and the Play must go on ... I guess we just have to wait and see.

Whatever your misgivings about the western character, Buddhism is here to stay in the west. I say, give us a chance. We may surprise you

My reply : Like I said ... Fate of a Race cannot be changed. Oh well ... take a best shot and may God help us (in the East) all when Western Buddhism arrives.

By Living Dead Chipmunk

Don't bother. He's not ALLOWED to say anything different. If he does, the Malay police will track him down and stick him into the wonderfully Buddist reeducation camps.

My reply : Here's a load of nonsense. Malaysia is a Muslim country and they follow Islam (like a bad joke ... Sarcasm), so my government won't care a bit of what people will say about other religion other than Islam.

gwh00

Buddhism, at the core, does not hold to a belief in deity. Some branches present a hierarchy of beings to the laity as an initial introduction to the spectrum of consciousness.
The work of Buddhism is inquiry into the nature of one’s own being… That work will carry you beyond the idea or concept or habit of considering yourself to be any thing.

Gary

Seraphim

Buddhism, at the core, does not hold to a belief in deity. Some branches present a hierarchy of beings to the laity as an initial introduction to the spectrum of consciousness.
The work of Buddhism is inquiry into the nature of one’s own being… That work will carry you beyond the idea or concept or habit of considering yourself to be any thing.

My reply : Buddhism also thinks that free sex, alcholol, over-indulging in most activities etc is bad for you, that doesn't stop anyone else who called themselves Buddhist from going out and abusing themselves, their society and Buddhism's good name either.

AdamWho

A wild non-sequiter with traces of straw man and ad-hom.

I would like to hear some real ideas on this subject "Buddhism and Atheism".

As noted in many threads in this forum many Atheists are Buddhists, some find this a contradiction while others don't.
Apparently gwh00 and I (AdamWho) do not think it is a contradiction.

Seraphim

A wild non-sequiter with traces of straw man and ad-hom.

My reply : whatever ... I'm more concerned about Buddhism and its reputation (and its importance to the East).

Here's a question for you all and I hope to receive a proper answer. The question is :

Do Atheist have what it takes to become a Buddhist?

If Yes, why you think so?

If No, why you think so?

My personal opinion is No, because Buddhism is hard road to follow and needs sheer determination among anything else to pursue the path of Buddhism.

I don't see such determination among Atheists here. All I see is people trying to find excuses for what they are rather than something to believe in.

AdamWho

Sepharim

Exactly what do you think Buddhism is beyond the four noble truths?
What is it, beyond understanding these truths and constant self examination that Buddhism requires? It seems that many atheists have gone through a similar path as the mythological Buddha as they search for "truth" and their experience should not be so readily discounted. Are you just ranting? If so then there is nothing to discuss.

If you are not ranting could you explain how the four noble truths contradict atheism?

Seraphim

Exactly what do you think Buddhism is beyond the four noble truths?
What is it, beyond understanding these truths and constant self examination that Buddhism requires? It seems that many atheists have gone through a similar path as the mythological Buddha as they search for "truth" and their experience should not be so readily discounted. Are you just ranting? If so then there is nothing to discuss.

If you are not ranting could you explain how the four noble truths contradict atheism?

My reply : My question was simple and straightforward. I don't think anyone could have hard time understanding it. Anyway, I will ask again :

Do Atheists have what it takes to become Buddhist?

IF Yes, Why?

IF No, Why?

Answer mine if you want me to answer you.

AdamWho

Sepharim


Do Atheists have what it takes to become Buddhist?

Yes, (many) atheists not only have what it takes to be Buddhist but many are on a similar path as the Buddha. Most atheists have come to atheism through a similar path as the mythological Buddha and that many already implicitly understand the 4 Noble truths even if they might not know them explicitly.

The atheist through doubt, spiritual experimentation, questioning religious authority, self examination denies god. How does that differ from the Buddha turning away Hinduism and denying those gods? Isn't the Buddha an atheist?

Maybe I am missing your point, maybe you see Buddhism as a list of arduous tasks or a strict set of rules which must be followed. Maybe you see Buddha as a god to be worshiped. If this is the case then you might be talking about a "true Buddhist" (tm), one which only fits your particular guidelines.

Now it is your turn to answer my question.