Freethought & Rationalism Archive

John Hancock · 05-21-2003, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PalestineChic19
wow this thread was certainly went down hill, with the arguing I could not tell if there was any actual discussion on the post or not anymore! it is true that here in Amerika, there is A LOT more representation of Israeli viewpoint, and Palestinian are very under represented. but just like this, that discussion is gone astray too.

-Samirah

Just a short note before I log off to go and do some work. I was confused by the style that sphinx wui employed in his first two posts (and I admit that I view them as flooding if not an attempt to blogger).

I think that their is ample evidence to support his opinion that short sited US policies have underminded positive forces within the Middle East and one of those was the Pan Arabic vision of Nasser.

http://www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=818 a link which I earlier. :

1952--Egypt
American influence and assistance backs the conspiracy of Gammal Abdel Nasser's Free Officers to oust the Egyptian royal family, the British post-colonial client regime in Egypt. The U.S. expects Nasser to support Washington's anti-Soviet alliance in the Middle East, dubbed the Baghdad Pact, but he turns against the U.S. U.S. agents support Colonel Mohammad Naguib's attempt to overthrow Nasser, as well as later assassination attempts.

Yea or Nay let's get the show on the road. :banghead:

Martin

sphinx wui · 05-21-2003, 04:00 PM

First of all, I admit it was a mistake to start this thread in this forum using this style. if I did the same in an Arabic forum, every body will understand what I mean by it cause they are familiar with those events �except for sure the personal ones- as Palestinianchic did cause of her background but she was the exception here. thank god I didn�t post my other master piece!!! �what went wrong� which is a thread going back in history to 1798!! To this day. Before any accusations, I got the title from a book by �Bernard Lewis�.

The aim of my thread was to show that Egypt from the beginning of this century to the sixties was a progressive force in the region and when it lost its leading role and succumbed to Saudi influence, they drag the whole region with them back to the middle ages but it was obvious that I chose the wrong way to convey this message.

Any way, back to the ranch.

About Nasser and Naguib and their role to oust King Farouk, Nasser was the actual organizer and leader but as he was young �34� he preferred to take cover behind Naguib which was a respectable figure in Egyptian society and popular general in the army ( he won the election for chairman of the armed forces club against the royal candidate few months before ousting the royal family) and Naguib became the first presient of the new republic from 1952 to 1954 when Nasser took over after brief power struggle.

About the American help to Nasser I think this was a fiction more than reality to discredit Nasser and to portray him as an American puppet. The main author who stated such thing was Copeland, Miles in his book �Game of Nations� but I don�t give much credit to it.( I read it in Arabic may be the name of book in English is not exact but similar)

Nasser in the beginning was not anti American at all and once he was in power he started an extensive dialogue with the Americans to get technical aid and asked the Americans for a loan to build the high dam and they asked for time to think about it.
At the same year, the bombing of American interests in Cairo and Alexandria started and the Americans accused him that he was blackmailing them but later during the same year the whole issue was uncovered. The Israeli government didn�t like this new relation and went in a mission to ruin it by bombing American interests in Egypt using some Egyptian Jews to became what is known in history as �Lavon Affair�

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill...von_hirst.html
http://www.intellex.com/~rigs/page1/lavon.htm
http://www.jajz-ed.org.il/juice/service/week2.html

during the trial that followed this incident and some of the suspects got death penalty sentences, Eisenhower asked Nasser secretly to release them!!!!! which sound very strange to him and he refused. Later US refused to give the loan to Egypt and Nasser in response nationalized the Suez Canal to fund the high dam project and France, Britain and Israel attacked Egypt shortly after it to became what is known as Suez crisis or �Triple aggression� in Egypt. Nasser emerged from this crisis as a national hero and started to build the dam with technical help from the Russians and started extensive program to industarlize the country but the relations between Egypt and America became very tense and Nasser became openly critical to America and once called Eisenhower �Israeli puppet in the white house�!!!!

Nasser later on took over Syria in 1958 after many military coups and period of instability over there to become a president of a country he never visited before!!! Except in history books and he got a hero welcome when he landed for the first time in Syria to declare the �united Arab Republic�. This event was very alarming to the reactionary forces in the Middle East and the house of Saud took notice of it besides King Hussein of Jordon and Shah of Iran

Beside the reforms that Nasser implemented in Egypt including the transformation of Alazhar Univeristy-the oldest university in the Islamic world dating back to more than 1000 year- to a modern university teaching secular curriculums beside the Islamic sciences, he became more involved in supporting the revolutions in Algeria, Congo and even latin America. When he declared his support to the new revolution in Yemen and sent Egyptian troops overthere, Saudia Arabia can�t take it anymore and packed by America, they started to support the royalists in Yemen hoping to drag the feet of Nasser in a prolonged conflict to exhaust him cause Saudia Arabia knew that if they don�t act rapidly they are next.

America preferred to deal with one of the most oppressive backward regimes In the world thinking by this way it will protect its interests in the region and as long as a regime like the Saudi is in power every thing will be OK and considered Nasser as the real threat to its interests.

For a while. It seemed that the American plan worked very well, Egypt involved in a prolonged conflict in Yemen which exhausted its resources and ended with a disaster in 1967 war with Israel which forced Nasser to withdrew from Yemen and concentrated on rebuilding the Egyptian army for an inevitable battle with Israel and by the mid seventies Egypt came under the influence of the Saudi for financial reasons while Americans secured their Gas station in the region and the Saudis went back to the middle ages to enjoy their Harems and every body seemed happy with this peaceful outcome but they were dead wrong.

May be Egypt was hostile to America but it was reasonable secular hostility that any body can address, understand, discuss and solve it but the case with the Saudi was completely different and I think all of you now understand the difference.

I do not want to blame America for every thing but you can�t look at an event like 9/11 without looking at the lengthy road that led to it. I was listening over the radio to Sean Hanity screaming that America never did anything wrong and the moral high ground that GWB stands on and wonder if he is just ignorant or stupid!

You may ask why I opened this thread and wonder about my position from Saudia Arabia, to be honest I despise the Saudi regime but long before America despised it and I feel that the Saudi people (including Osama Bin Laden!!) fall victims to the most backward oppressive regime in the world under the camouflage of Islam. Osama is just a symptom of the disease not the disease itself. I listened few days ago to the speech that the Saudi crown prince gave (which is a historic event by itself) about the recent explosions there, the guy can�t read few lines in his mother tongue and started to pronounce the words letter by letter! And yesterday I was surfing the net and checking an Arabic forum called Betalarab to find a Saudi guy put a post with the title, �house of Saud god bless them, how god send the house of Saud as a blessing to humanity"!!!!!!!!!! it was not parody or sarcastic he was speaking very seriously!
Even after the Internet they still in the middle ages!!

Ps. The original book that I got the letter from was �years of boiling� by Heykel, Mohamed Hassanein and I think if you search his name you will find his books also in English and in the Apendix of the book there is about 200 pages of documents including personal letters between him and Copeland, the author of �Game of nations� and this is the reason I discredited Copeland concerning his claim.
http://www.namebase.org/sources/dH.html

regarding King Hussein of Jordon, Bin Bradley, chief editor of the Washington Post in his biography ( A Good Life) in page 424 stated that Bob woodward (water gates guy) told him that he got information that important person in the middle east is on the pay roll of the CIA and later confirmed that the person is King Hussein and when they asked for explanation from the white house Carter asked to meet Bradley and told him that the information is right and asked him not to publish it cause it will hurt the American foreign policy but later they published it in the Washington Post.

No body will believe this but it is true, King Hussein few days before Oct. war in 1973 went to Israel secretly to warn Golda Meir that Egypt is preparing for an imminent attack on Israel but no body took him seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!

Source, Elie Zaiera his book about Oct, war in page 95 in the Hebrew version only and later the BBC in 1998 said it in a documentary about the Middle East

Nov.12 1962, Sahel Hamza, commander of the Jordanian air force landed in Almaza military airport in Cairo seeking asylum in Egypt to avoid obeying orders from the King to supply the rebels in Yemen with arms

Nov.13 1962, two Jordanian pilots did the same thing for the same reason.

Oct,2 1962, two Saudi pilots and one tech. landed in Almaza airport with their American cargo plane full of American weapons going to the rebels in Yemen

Oct 3 1962, the same thing in Aswan Airport

Oct 8 1962 the same thing in Almaza airport.
Source, �the boiling years� by Heykel 1988, first edition

Yea or Nay let's get the show on the road.

John Hancock · 05-21-2003, 07:56 PM

Although Jon Hirst's Sheffield University Credentials appear above reproach.
His work at the Guardian has been questioned. Unfortunately there are so many David Dukes on the net it has proven difficult to verify the Lavon Affair from acceptable sources. I think that the following qualifies.

UNITED NATIONS

Security Council

S/PV.1424
9 May 1968

OFFICIAL RECORDS

TWENTY-THIRD YEAR

1424th MEETING: 9 MAY 1968

NEW YORK
____________________________________
CONTENTS

Provisional agenda (S/Agenda/1424)

Adoption of the agenda

The situation in the Middle East:

(a) Letter dated 25 April 1968 from the Permanent Representative
of Jordan addressed to the President of the Security Council
(S/8560);

(b) Report of the Secretary-General under General Assembly
resolution 2254 (ES-V) relating to Jerusalem (S/8146)

FOURTEEN HUNDRED AND TWENTY-FOURTH MEETING

Held in New York on Thursday, 9 May 1968, at 4 p.m.
President: Lord CARADON
(United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland).

Present: The representatives of the following States: Algeria, Brazil, Canada, China, Denmark, Ethiopia, France, Hungary, India, Pakistan, Paraguay, Senegal, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and United States of America.
Provisional agenda (S/Agenda/1424)

1. Adoption of the agenda.

2. The situation in the Middle East:

(a) Letter dated 25 April 1968 from the Permanent Representative of Jordan addressed to the President of the Security Council (S/8560);

(b) Report of the Secretary-General under General Assembly resolution 2254 (ES-V) relating to Jerusalem (S/8146).
Adoption of the agenda

The agenda was adopted.

The situation in the Middle East:

(a) Letter dated 25 April 1968 from the Permanent Representative of Jordan addressed to the President of the Security Council (S/8560);

(b) Report of the Secretary General under General Assembly resolution
2254 (ES V) relating to Jerusalem (S/8146)
_____________________________________________

"Lavon affair", where signatures of the Minister for Defence of Israel were forged in order to issue a request to two Zionists belonging to a terrorist gang in Cairo, Moshe Marzook and Samuel Azzar by name. They operated in Cairo. They destroyed American libraries and American installations in order to upset friendly relations between what was then Egypt and the United States of America.
__________________________________________________

Proving if US aid was indeed fictional will require that I attempt to trace govermental financial channels. I'm presently to tired to tackle this task tonight. I will state that I do believe that the aid was given and the denial of this is probably (a big white hat ploy.)more wishful than factual.
_______________________________________
sphinx wui

I've only read your first link in your most recent post. I've been out swinging a 48oz framming hammer most of today - I most rest now.

Martin

John Hancock · 05-22-2003, 08:31 AM

sphinx wui

Thank you for the links that you've supplied. They are indeed an eye opener into the complexities of Mid Eastern political intrigue. Certainly Isreal has been involved in other countries affairs to a larger degree than most Westerners are aware of. Further, it the influence of Isreal's USA lobby bears watching.

Regarding:

About the American help to Nasser I think this was a fiction more than reality to discredit Nasser and to portray him as an American puppet.

I've not been able to find any goverment issued evidnce to ethier deny or confirm this opinion. All Historical references have indicated that Nasser did In fact recieve aid from US sources.

Is there some current Poltical link Twix events now an Egypt's unappreciated role in the Middle East?

Martin

sphinx wui · 05-22-2003, 12:05 PM

bout help to Nasser, Nasser negotiated with the Americans a loan for the country not something for himself and the funny thing is that Americans misunderstood the message and offered him three million dollar to protect the new regime and Nasser accepted it but he built Cairo tower in a very strange architectural design comparing to its surroundings and it looks like a �finger� and I read in an Arabic source that he meant to give the Americans the �finger� and indirect message that he couldn�t be bought. When Nasser died, even the house that he was living in didn�t belong to him and his widow had to request from the government to give the house to her and her kids as a memory and his personal wealth after death was 3000 Egyptian pound!!! If there was American help in any way it was for Egypt as a country and not for Nasser And I think this was not the case with King Hussein and by the way, you checked � A Good Life� or not? If you find different edition in a library you can check the index for King Hussein or ME or something to locate the page.

Egypt now lost its role to Saudi money and other players so there is nothing to appreciate actually!

Regarding the sources I admit that most of my sources are Arabic, which has no value here, but I will do my best to find English sources.

About Lavon Affair I put three sources to compare them to each other and one of them is Israeli and I think this can give you the bigger picture.

John Hancock · 05-22-2003, 04:29 PM

sphinx wui

I never thought that aid to Nasser wasn't intented for Egypt.

Martin

sphinx wui · 05-22-2003, 06:06 PM

Martin,

most of the American aid to developing countries end up in secret bank accounts in Switzerland! this wasn't the case with Nasser if there was financial help to begin with. i hope you understand why i don't consider a help for a president of a country is equal to help to this particular country.

http://www.beetalarab.net/cgi-bin/ik...T;f=14;t=12349

i don't know if this link will open with you or not but if it open, the first and third pictures are Nasser with Chi Givara, in Cairo59. i just found them in Arabic forum.

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05-21-2003, 04:00 PM	#32
sphinx wui Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: egypt Posts: 253	First of all, I admit it was a mistake to start this thread in this forum using this style. if I did the same in an Arabic forum, every body will understand what I mean by it cause they are familiar with those events �except for sure the personal ones- as Palestinianchic did cause of her background but she was the exception here. thank god I didn�t post my other master piece!!! �what went wrong� which is a thread going back in history to 1798!! To this day. Before any accusations, I got the title from a book by �Bernard Lewis�. The aim of my thread was to show that Egypt from the beginning of this century to the sixties was a progressive force in the region and when it lost its leading role and succumbed to Saudi influence, they drag the whole region with them back to the middle ages but it was obvious that I chose the wrong way to convey this message. Any way, back to the ranch. About Nasser and Naguib and their role to oust King Farouk, Nasser was the actual organizer and leader but as he was young �34� he preferred to take cover behind Naguib which was a respectable figure in Egyptian society and popular general in the army ( he won the election for chairman of the armed forces club against the royal candidate few months before ousting the royal family) and Naguib became the first presient of the new republic from 1952 to 1954 when Nasser took over after brief power struggle. About the American help to Nasser I think this was a fiction more than reality to discredit Nasser and to portray him as an American puppet. The main author who stated such thing was Copeland, Miles in his book �Game of Nations� but I don�t give much credit to it.( I read it in Arabic may be the name of book in English is not exact but similar) Nasser in the beginning was not anti American at all and once he was in power he started an extensive dialogue with the Americans to get technical aid and asked the Americans for a loan to build the high dam and they asked for time to think about it. At the same year, the bombing of American interests in Cairo and Alexandria started and the Americans accused him that he was blackmailing them but later during the same year the whole issue was uncovered. The Israeli government didn�t like this new relation and went in a mission to ruin it by bombing American interests in Egypt using some Egyptian Jews to became what is known in history as �Lavon Affair� http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill...von_hirst.html http://www.intellex.com/~rigs/page1/lavon.htm http://www.jajz-ed.org.il/juice/service/week2.html during the trial that followed this incident and some of the suspects got death penalty sentences, Eisenhower asked Nasser secretly to release them!!!!! which sound very strange to him and he refused. Later US refused to give the loan to Egypt and Nasser in response nationalized the Suez Canal to fund the high dam project and France, Britain and Israel attacked Egypt shortly after it to became what is known as Suez crisis or �Triple aggression� in Egypt. Nasser emerged from this crisis as a national hero and started to build the dam with technical help from the Russians and started extensive program to industarlize the country but the relations between Egypt and America became very tense and Nasser became openly critical to America and once called Eisenhower �Israeli puppet in the white house�!!!! Nasser later on took over Syria in 1958 after many military coups and period of instability over there to become a president of a country he never visited before!!! Except in history books and he got a hero welcome when he landed for the first time in Syria to declare the �united Arab Republic�. This event was very alarming to the reactionary forces in the Middle East and the house of Saud took notice of it besides King Hussein of Jordon and Shah of Iran Beside the reforms that Nasser implemented in Egypt including the transformation of Alazhar Univeristy-the oldest university in the Islamic world dating back to more than 1000 year- to a modern university teaching secular curriculums beside the Islamic sciences, he became more involved in supporting the revolutions in Algeria, Congo and even latin America. When he declared his support to the new revolution in Yemen and sent Egyptian troops overthere, Saudia Arabia can�t take it anymore and packed by America, they started to support the royalists in Yemen hoping to drag the feet of Nasser in a prolonged conflict to exhaust him cause Saudia Arabia knew that if they don�t act rapidly they are next. America preferred to deal with one of the most oppressive backward regimes In the world thinking by this way it will protect its interests in the region and as long as a regime like the Saudi is in power every thing will be OK and considered Nasser as the real threat to its interests. For a while. It seemed that the American plan worked very well, Egypt involved in a prolonged conflict in Yemen which exhausted its resources and ended with a disaster in 1967 war with Israel which forced Nasser to withdrew from Yemen and concentrated on rebuilding the Egyptian army for an inevitable battle with Israel and by the mid seventies Egypt came under the influence of the Saudi for financial reasons while Americans secured their Gas station in the region and the Saudis went back to the middle ages to enjoy their Harems and every body seemed happy with this peaceful outcome but they were dead wrong. May be Egypt was hostile to America but it was reasonable secular hostility that any body can address, understand, discuss and solve it but the case with the Saudi was completely different and I think all of you now understand the difference. I do not want to blame America for every thing but you can�t look at an event like 9/11 without looking at the lengthy road that led to it. I was listening over the radio to Sean Hanity screaming that America never did anything wrong and the moral high ground that GWB stands on and wonder if he is just ignorant or stupid! You may ask why I opened this thread and wonder about my position from Saudia Arabia, to be honest I despise the Saudi regime but long before America despised it and I feel that the Saudi people (including Osama Bin Laden!!) fall victims to the most backward oppressive regime in the world under the camouflage of Islam. Osama is just a symptom of the disease not the disease itself. I listened few days ago to the speech that the Saudi crown prince gave (which is a historic event by itself) about the recent explosions there, the guy can�t read few lines in his mother tongue and started to pronounce the words letter by letter! And yesterday I was surfing the net and checking an Arabic forum called Betalarab to find a Saudi guy put a post with the title, �house of Saud god bless them, how god send the house of Saud as a blessing to humanity"!!!!!!!!!! it was not parody or sarcastic he was speaking very seriously! Even after the Internet they still in the middle ages!! Ps. The original book that I got the letter from was �years of boiling� by Heykel, Mohamed Hassanein and I think if you search his name you will find his books also in English and in the Apendix of the book there is about 200 pages of documents including personal letters between him and Copeland, the author of �Game of nations� and this is the reason I discredited Copeland concerning his claim. http://www.namebase.org/sources/dH.html regarding King Hussein of Jordon, Bin Bradley, chief editor of the Washington Post in his biography ( A Good Life) in page 424 stated that Bob woodward (water gates guy) told him that he got information that important person in the middle east is on the pay roll of the CIA and later confirmed that the person is King Hussein and when they asked for explanation from the white house Carter asked to meet Bradley and told him that the information is right and asked him not to publish it cause it will hurt the American foreign policy but later they published it in the Washington Post. No body will believe this but it is true, King Hussein few days before Oct. war in 1973 went to Israel secretly to warn Golda Meir that Egypt is preparing for an imminent attack on Israel but no body took him seriously!!!!!!!!!!!! Source, Elie Zaiera his book about Oct, war in page 95 in the Hebrew version only and later the BBC in 1998 said it in a documentary about the Middle East Nov.12 1962, Sahel Hamza, commander of the Jordanian air force landed in Almaza military airport in Cairo seeking asylum in Egypt to avoid obeying orders from the King to supply the rebels in Yemen with arms Nov.13 1962, two Jordanian pilots did the same thing for the same reason. Oct,2 1962, two Saudi pilots and one tech. landed in Almaza airport with their American cargo plane full of American weapons going to the rebels in Yemen Oct 3 1962, the same thing in Aswan Airport Oct 8 1962 the same thing in Almaza airport. Source, �the boiling years� by Heykel 1988, first edition Yea or Nay let's get the show on the road.

05-21-2003, 07:56 PM	#33
John Hancock Banned Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mars Posts: 2,231	Although Jon Hirst's Sheffield University Credentials appear above reproach. His work at the Guardian has been questioned. Unfortunately there are so many David Dukes on the net it has proven difficult to verify the Lavon Affair from acceptable sources. I think that the following qualifies. UNITED NATIONS Security Council S/PV.1424 9 May 1968 OFFICIAL RECORDS TWENTY-THIRD YEAR 1424th MEETING: 9 MAY 1968 NEW YORK ____________________________________ CONTENTS Provisional agenda (S/Agenda/1424) Adoption of the agenda The situation in the Middle East: (a) Letter dated 25 April 1968 from the Permanent Representative of Jordan addressed to the President of the Security Council (S/8560); (b) Report of the Secretary-General under General Assembly resolution 2254 (ES-V) relating to Jerusalem (S/8146) FOURTEEN HUNDRED AND TWENTY-FOURTH MEETING Held in New York on Thursday, 9 May 1968, at 4 p.m. President: Lord CARADON (United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland). Present: The representatives of the following States: Algeria, Brazil, Canada, China, Denmark, Ethiopia, France, Hungary, India, Pakistan, Paraguay, Senegal, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and United States of America. Provisional agenda (S/Agenda/1424) 1. Adoption of the agenda. 2. The situation in the Middle East: (a) Letter dated 25 April 1968 from the Permanent Representative of Jordan addressed to the President of the Security Council (S/8560); (b) Report of the Secretary-General under General Assembly resolution 2254 (ES-V) relating to Jerusalem (S/8146). Adoption of the agenda The agenda was adopted. The situation in the Middle East: (a) Letter dated 25 April 1968 from the Permanent Representative of Jordan addressed to the President of the Security Council (S/8560); (b) Report of the Secretary General under General Assembly resolution 2254 (ES V) relating to Jerusalem (S/8146) _____________________________________________ "Lavon affair", where signatures of the Minister for Defence of Israel were forged in order to issue a request to two Zionists belonging to a terrorist gang in Cairo, Moshe Marzook and Samuel Azzar by name. They operated in Cairo. They destroyed American libraries and American installations in order to upset friendly relations between what was then Egypt and the United States of America. __________________________________________________ Proving if US aid was indeed fictional will require that I attempt to trace govermental financial channels. I'm presently to tired to tackle this task tonight. I will state that I do believe that the aid was given and the denial of this is probably (a big white hat ploy.)more wishful than factual. _______________________________________ sphinx wui I've only read your first link in your most recent post. I've been out swinging a 48oz framming hammer most of today - I most rest now. Martin

05-22-2003, 08:31 AM	#34
John Hancock Banned Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mars Posts: 2,231	sphinx wui Thank you for the links that you've supplied. They are indeed an eye opener into the complexities of Mid Eastern political intrigue. Certainly Isreal has been involved in other countries affairs to a larger degree than most Westerners are aware of. Further, it the influence of Isreal's USA lobby bears watching. Regarding: About the American help to Nasser I think this was a fiction more than reality to discredit Nasser and to portray him as an American puppet. I've not been able to find any goverment issued evidnce to ethier deny or confirm this opinion. All Historical references have indicated that Nasser did In fact recieve aid from US sources. Is there some current Poltical link Twix events now an Egypt's unappreciated role in the Middle East? Martin

05-22-2003, 12:05 PM	#35
sphinx wui Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: egypt Posts: 253	bout help to Nasser, Nasser negotiated with the Americans a loan for the country not something for himself and the funny thing is that Americans misunderstood the message and offered him three million dollar to protect the new regime and Nasser accepted it but he built Cairo tower in a very strange architectural design comparing to its surroundings and it looks like a �finger� and I read in an Arabic source that he meant to give the Americans the �finger� and indirect message that he couldn�t be bought. When Nasser died, even the house that he was living in didn�t belong to him and his widow had to request from the government to give the house to her and her kids as a memory and his personal wealth after death was 3000 Egyptian pound!!! If there was American help in any way it was for Egypt as a country and not for Nasser And I think this was not the case with King Hussein and by the way, you checked � A Good Life� or not? If you find different edition in a library you can check the index for King Hussein or ME or something to locate the page. Egypt now lost its role to Saudi money and other players so there is nothing to appreciate actually! Regarding the sources I admit that most of my sources are Arabic, which has no value here, but I will do my best to find English sources. About Lavon Affair I put three sources to compare them to each other and one of them is Israeli and I think this can give you the bigger picture.

05-22-2003, 04:29 PM	#36
John Hancock Banned Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mars Posts: 2,231	sphinx wui I never thought that aid to Nasser wasn't intented for Egypt. Martin

05-22-2003, 06:06 PM	#37
sphinx wui Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: egypt Posts: 253	Martin, most of the American aid to developing countries end up in secret bank accounts in Switzerland! this wasn't the case with Nasser if there was financial help to begin with. i hope you understand why i don't consider a help for a president of a country is equal to help to this particular country. http://www.beetalarab.net/cgi-bin/ik...T;f=14;t=12349 i don't know if this link will open with you or not but if it open, the first and third pictures are Nasser with Chi Givara, in Cairo59. i just found them in Arabic forum.

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