ybnormal

Sure... once in your lifetime the most powerful man in the world interrupts regular television programming to in part, give you a personal message, and you don't give a rat's ass what he says... sure, Amie... guess you'd be in the kitchen making yourself a sandwich.

Radorth

I thought she was talking about whether kids listen to Presidents.

I never did.

Rad

The Other Michael

I found it interesting that when an NPR reporter was interviewing a small child (5 years?) at one of the memorial services she kept putting to the child that the astronauts "were in a safe place now".

That's a new euphemism to me.

I think GWB would be better off firing his handlers and asking Miss Manners for advice instead.

cheers,
Michael

Nickle

Well, no sense of tact is very common.

openeyes

Kids are very aware, at least at certain ages, about how they or their families are different than the majority of society.

If that difference is atheism vs theism (especially of the Christian sort), the last thing they would need at a time like this is a reminder of this difference, especially when their world has been turned upside-down, especially if unnecessary fear is added.

The fact that the majority may find religious words comforting does not excuse this insensitivy to an alternate, but very rational and useful, point of view.

And that many theists can't seem to understand how this is unnecessarily hurtful only adds to my frustration as an atheist raising children.

Mageth

To be clear, I'm an atheist, and I don't understand how Bush's words were "unnecessarily hurtful." I know that many, if not most, hold on to a hope of an afterlife. I don't let them expressing their beliefs get under my skin, though. I wasn't hurt by Bush's words, but like I said, his words could (should) have been more inclusive.

Perhaps it's best to teach your children to look at things that way, rather than letting themselves be hurt by what are in reality a meaningless expression of a false hope. That, to me, seems like a rational, useful point of view for occasions like this, which they will face throughout their life.

If Bush had used stronger words or mentioned the hope of heaven for those who believe and the threat of hell for those who don't, I think you and others would have a much stronger case. I just can't extrapolate from Bush's shallow, generic comments to where lots of little atheist or agnostic children are supposedly feeling hurt or worthless.

openeyes

I'm not saying that atheist chldren in general were hurt, as others have pointed out, most kids probably aren't paying attention, but can't one see where there may be added hurt to the children of the astronauts if they aren't religious? Even if they don't really think daddy or mommy are going to hell, that they would feel even more isolated? Making these children feel comfortable with their view of the world and affirming their worthiness would be much more helpful than prayers, IMO.

If I should die, then I can't help my children navigate the theistic society as a non-believer, so I feel I need to speak up when I can for sensitivity in this area.

Rusting Car Bumper

Actually in a way you are.

Actually the point is that Bush isn't worried about whether his words are offensive. Do honestly think Husband's family would not be hurt and shocked if Bush started quoting the Hindu Gita and not the Bible?

Recall Richard Feynman's story of his father's funeral. His father and himself were non-believers although the family is of Jewish origin. His mother arranged a Jewish funeral and asked Richard to say a Hebrew prayer. Feynman tried to politely avoid this by saying he couldn't read the text. The Rabbi then said he would help him read the Hebrew. The story has it that he then caused somewhat of a scene and stomped out because of this insistence of "honoring" his father in a way his father would find meaningless. This story stands as a sort of archtype.

To think that the family of someone who is deeply religious (or deeply non-religious) would then be unconcerned by the hoistng of beliefs they do not hold upon them at such an emotional time is to not live in a real world.

DC

Mageth

I'm not saying that atheist chldren in general were hurt, as others have pointed out, most kids probably aren't paying attention, but can't one see where there may be added hurt to the children of the astronauts if they aren't religious? Even if they don't really think daddy or mommy are going to hell, that they would feel even more isolated?

No, I can't really see where Bush's comments would necessarily cause that.

Making these children feel comfortable with their view of the world and affirming their worthiness would be much more helpful than prayers, IMO.

I agree, but I think that responsibility is ultimately the parent's, not the President's. And I hope, and believe, that if Bush was to talk directly to the family of one of the astronauts and knew they and/or the astronaut were not Christian (atheist, Jew, or Hindu; take your pick), he would tailor his words for the particular situation. There's no real real reason to believe he would do otherwise.

But as I've said many times, Bush's comments could have, and should have, been more inclusive.

Sabine Grant

I am not sure children have minds which twist every word and intellectualize all things. There is still something "magic" in a children's minds which allows them to see hope where we want to see despair or the oblivion of death.

What is more uplifting to a child when presented with the reality that mom or dad died? Personaly I would rather my children to retain a sense that " I went home" and they will see me again.

In any case NONE of us knows what the after death is like. No previous experience to relate to. A " home where the soul goes" is an assumption. An oblivion where a species ceases to be is an assumption.

I personaly pick the first assumption.