The SwampThing

So, you too? How many are there?
The funny thing is, the moment you start getting corrected by your own mistakes, you get mad and start the Ad Ominum remarks!! Oh well...
And i still haven�t learned how to correctly spell the word i got wrong, or what was wrong with it!
Constructive criticism i aprecciate, but pointless criticism i do not.

Back on subject:
The fact that tank crew stays close to lots of DU shells, kept in the storage box, that does not present any real danger. The real danger comes when those shells are used on a target and the uranium present in the shells gets vaporized and subsequentelly gets inhaled by people who get too close to the area where the target was hit.
But i said this all before!! Don�t you people read the posts??
How about reading the example i posted, about our troops in Boznia?
And besides, the amount needed to cause cancer or leuchemia is very small, like a spec of dust! It does not show up on Geiger counters. A Geiger counter can only pick up exterior radiation, like on a man�s skin. If one single spec of uranium gets lodged in your lungs, it starts killing the cells wich it gets into contact with. It does not travel thru your blood stream, and it doesn�t multiply! It is not a virus, you know?
You guys have the wrong idea of what radiation does, or how it works.
And DU shells are only dangerous when the shell ignites itself. The small portion of DU used in the making of the shells, is normaly placed on the tip of the shell, to enable penetration. It is latter covered by a thin layer of isolative material, to prevent radiation leaking. When fired, the shell hits the armour and the protective coating gets wipped out, leaving the DU material to favor penetration. It�s quite simple , actually. And logical!
But also very dangerous.
Lots of troops like to take photos while standing on destroyed tanks and stuff. They even get pieces of it as souvenirs and send them home!! Very dumb...
:banghead: :banghead:

PS: Radiation poisoning is when you get exposed to high levels of radiation. But a simple spec of uranium will cause celular mutations, like cancer or leuchemia. One does not imply the other. They are two seperate things.
:boohoo:

Amen-Moses

It does not show up in blood tests for the same reason that mercury or lead poisoning does not show up, heavy elements stay where they lodge and do not travel around freely in the blood. Typically they will lodge in the Lungs, Liver an Kidneys although they can also lodge in the brain although that is rarer as most of the time the brain is higher than the entry point. Deaths caused by these agents are usually detected by the side effects of the organ damage they cause or by post mortem biopsy of the organs.

Gamma radiation is actually less dangerous than Alpha or Beta in the same doses as the vast majority of it will pass straight through the body without coming into contact with anything, prolonged exposure to Gamma radiation or a very high dose is required to do real harm. Beta particles can travel through clothing and skin but usually only cause surface damage due to a shorter life, it is responsible for the majority of radiation burns. Alpha only travel a short distance but are long lived and extremely damaging, any material, even if it has a low radioactivity level, that emits Alpha particles is potentially lethal if ingested. DU dust is in this last category btw breathing it in or ingesting it on food or in drink is just as potentially damaging as Asbestos, Lead or Mercury. In addition it is chemically more reactive than Lead or Mercury and both of those are potentially lethal!

Amen-Moses

Gurdur

Not completely correct.

For one thing, different chemical compounds and elements will behave differently in the human body.
Strontium and caesium will head for the bones, others will concentrate in different places.
The brain being "higher", BTW, has nothing whatsoever to do with what concentrates or doesn't concentrate in the brain; the brain has an extremely good and powerful dedicated blood supply well capable of transporting most things into the brain; what determines what ends up there is the blood-brain barrier and chemical affinities.

Plus, BTW, lead will actually show up in blood tests.

Gurdur

Eh ? By what standards of toxicity are you comparing uranium ?

The SwampThing

Some links here, about DU usage and malformities caused by it.

http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres...atastrophe.htm
and
http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres...formities1.htm

NOTE: BE ADVIZED THE PICTURES ARE VERY DISTURBING.

Some of these pictures show babies who look like aliens in a John Carpenter movie.
Direct result of DU usage and UN sanctions in Iraq, since the 1� Gulf War.
I feel sick...

Also, notice the picture of the iraqi tank taken to the States, where suited technicians made measurements on radiation level.
Enjoy.

Amen-Moses

I thought it only showed up in extreme cases, i.e those where either prolongued exposure or massive exposure had taken place, usually industrial accidents.

After the govt here banned Lead additives in petrol there were many calls for a testing regime to find out those who may have been affected but the medical bods said that it wasn't detectable except by symptoms.

Amen-Moses

Loren Pechtel

Originally posted by The SwampThing
So, you too? How many are there?

I normally only do it to be humorous. I realize that foreigners won't be very good spellers. I'm *MARRIED* to one.

danger. The real danger comes when those shells are used on a target and the uranium present in the shells gets vaporized and subsequentelly gets inhaled by people who get too close to the area where the target was hit.

But the original didn't say this.

wich it gets into contact with. It does not travel thru your blood stream, and it doesn�t multiply! It is not a virus, you know?

Some will get in your blood and can be detected.

Loren Pechtel

Originally posted by Amen-Moses
It does not show up in blood tests for the same reason that mercury or lead poisoning does not show up,

They *DO* show up!

RLV

If I may intrude...

I think you are overeacting a bit. I don't think MegaDave was making fun at you; he (and Loren later) was only pointing out a typo which he found funny.

Mind you, I'm not a native English speaker myself. And I'm grateful when somebody points out a mistake of mine. More so if it's funny and I can have a laught at it.

'Unknowned' should be 'unknown'. And 'Ad Ominum' should be 'Ad Hominem'. This is Latin; you should know it better than those anglos.


RLV

Derec

No it has actually very little radiation. It is 40% less radioactive than natural uranium which is by itself not very radioactive.

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just in the generally non harmful type, ie alpha, beta, but not gamma.

No, Uranium emits alpha and gamma radiation. Very little neutrons due to spontaneous fission too.

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Now alpha and beta are not harmful in low ammounts, because they cannot penetrate most solid objects, hence your dead skin cells stop the radiation before it has a chance to do any damage to the living cells.

All radiation is not harmful in small amounts. Alpha (Helium nuclei) is not harmful if applied externally, but it can be if radioactive nuclei are inhaled or ingested.
Beta (electrons) can penetrate depeer but still not very deep and is also mostly dangerous internally, albeit less so than alpha.
Gamma is same type of radiation as x-rays (or plain old light for that matter) but withg much higher energy. Therefore it can penetrate very deeply

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Now in the case of GWS(Gulf war syndrom) one hypothesis is that due to depleted uranium use, in shells and such, small ammounts of DU were vaporized, which is what is supposed to happen in the case of armor piercing rounds.

Oxidized really. Upon impact the DU rounds heat up and start burning thus scorching the whole interior of the tank. The oxide then can go airborne as an aerosol for a while before settling on the ground.

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Now this vapour coalesces into dust, This dust is very very easily breathed in, and once the DU gets into your lungs, well there is no dead skin on the insides of your lungs, not to mention that Uranium being a heavy metal, it builds up in your body.

Actually studies have shown that it will not acumulate in the lungs very effectively and that most U is removed from the body fairly quickly.
Also the radioactivity is so low that even if small uranium-oxide particles get into the lungs the radiation dosis (in mSv) will not exceed danger levels.

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Of course tests for radiation like this, say running a geiger counter over someone wouldn't work because the radiation is being blocked by the persons body.

It wouldn't work because the amounts are in ug or low mg amounts and becuase radioactivity is so low. The radioactivity of the Uranium would be overshadowed by the background natural radioactivity every one of us has due to C-14, K-40 and yes, even some natural Uranium.

Geiger counters do react to gamma radiation though.

Quote:

Now this is just one of the supposed causes of GWS and from what i've read this one seems to be the most legitimate, IE GWS is showing up in other places where DU was used, Bosnia, Afghanistan, and now Iraq#2

Well in the rare cases where a soldier (or a civilian) is exposed to large quantities of DU (friendly fire etc) than I can see the possibility of some medical condern. But in general DU cannot explain the GWS as a whole. Chemical weapons etc. would be a much more likely scenario. For example a lagre nerve agent dump was blown up by the military following the first GW due to a communications screwup.

Neurological symptoms that many GW veterans complained about are not consistent with DU-exposure but are consistent with low levels of nerve agents.

Another thing: the usual way to detect uranium is by way of urine tests.

UMoC