MollyMac

OK, revaelc, I've had a good look round the Channel 4 website and I find no trace of the documentary you quote from. This doesn't mean it wasn't screened, of course, but if it was "two or three years ago" as you state, is it not beyond the realms of possibility that you are misremembering it an eensy-weensy bit? The C4 website has a good science section, btw, and you might care to include a visit in your itinerary.

It's here.
I sense you have a numeracy problem. I sympathise. It must very severe indeed not to be able to estimate at a glance that not one of the responses to your OP runs into "hundreds of words". What you in fact got was several responses from different people making different points. Newsflash: This is a public discussion board and this is what tends to happen on them.
Oolon's busy right now but I'm sure he won't mind if I direct you to his webpage where you will find an abundance of examples. Or if you find it easier looking at pictures there are a couple on this thread that might tickle your fancy.

Some designer.

revaelc

In the beginning there was no space, no time, no matter. SUDDENLY there was an explosion..........

These were the first words in a documentary on Channel 4 (UK), shown two or three years ago, called 'the origin of the universe'.

What exploded?

Can someone please explain why something from nothing is easier to believe, or takes less faith to believe than, ''In the beginning GOD created''?

The reason I posted this thread was to try to determine the reliability of the foundation of the evolutionary argument...

48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. 49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
Luke 6


In a nutshell...
If the foundation is weak so to is the building\argument which stands\rests upon it.


nessa20x

The fact that evolution, and the thousands of other scientific theories out there....

Without establishing the beginning all of these THEORIES are destined to remain just that!

If my original question What exploded? has no absolute answer and is purely a matter for speculation then so to is every answer to every question raised on this forum.

Whatever your belief about the origin of the universe ultimately it has to be by faith.
The Bible is honest and tells us this repeatedly. what does evolution tell us?

rlogan

Say revaelc - seems to me you don't know much about either the Bible or evolution.

Evolution doesn't have a thing to do with the "Big Bang". You can have God creating the Universe if you want, and it has no bearing on evolution whatsoever.

Evoution does not even begin to operate until replication is already underway.

Yes, "In the beginning God created..." is much harder to believe as there are actually two creation stories interwoven there that are inconsistent with one another. Two flood stories, also inconsistent. Two sets of ten commandments, inconsistent. Two births of Christ, inconsistent. Two deaths of Judas, inconsistent. Three tomb stories. Etc.

Tell me, revaelc - why are you ignorant of your holy book having two different creation stories? You have faith in a book you don't even read close enough to catch that little problem?

Uh, of the three completely different geneologies offered for Jesus in Chronicles, Luke, and Matthew - which one is the "honest" one?

But you didn't even know there were three different geneologies. Because you don't even study your own book. So how can you charge anyone here with standing on a poor foundation ?

CoffeeFiend

Space-time, and it seems that it's still "exploding". And indeed, there may have been nothing before the big bang, simply because there is no "before" the big bang

You know, there are many other possibilities besides ''In the beginning GOD created'', some people, like Stephen Hawking for example, are trying to figure what other possibilities there may be and how we can verify which one is true. Even if God turns out to be the first cause(we don't know that for sure) it still doesn't falsify evolution. The universe exists, life exists in the universe and evolves, evolution explains how/why life evolves, not how the universe came to be. Hope that clears things up.

RufusAtticus

That is your problem. There is no "evolutionary argument" for the origin of the universe. (Biological) Evolution deals strictly with the origin of the diversity of life, not the origin of life, not the origin of Earth, not the origin of the solar system, not the origin of the Milky Way, not the origin of the universe.

trunks2k

Not even necessarily the origin of life. Isn't that relegated to abiogenesis? Although I could definately see abiogenesis having concepts similar to evolution and there being a very vague line between life and reproducing non-life.

nessa20x

quote
The fact that evolution, and the thousands of other scientific theories out there....

Without establishing the beginning all of these THEORIES are destined to remain just that!



---Yes just like gravity, the speed of light, and the solarcentric solar system. All just theory...but supported by a wealth of experimental data, evidence, and facts. Not knowing the beginning, does not stop us from knowing what occurs now. Evolution is based on fact...if you have any knowledge of the theory you would see the obvious simplicity of it. Just because you haven't studied something and have no idea what you are arguing against, doesn't make it wrong. The arguement from design is a logical arguement only...it only fools those people who can't figure out that a postulation is not evidence. Anyone with a knowledge of science would realize that it is a logical arguement and one that is very flawed.

what you are saying is this

x has a creator
"everything" has a creator

There is no way to support this arguement.

I say

x has a creator
"everything" is not known and is open to speculation.

or

x has a creator
this in no way relates to anything but x and its creator.

Red Expendable

When you say 'design' - you are presupposing the existence of a designer, but you have yet to show proof that there is a design to the universe.

Now show an example of 'design' or what you mean by design and we can get down to business.

Also, I don't think quoting the bible is going to win you any debates around here. But that particular quote is most ridiculous, because the bible was WRITTEN by man - so that very quote says that you should not trust what the writer of the quote is saying!!

RedEx