Ion

Bush 'liberating' Iraq, is like U.S.S.R. 'liberating' Afghanistan in 1980:

a foreign culture invades and loots.

By the same token, why not Islam 'liberating' U.S. from Christianity then, and looting U.S.' gold, with 'only' -say- 8,000 casualties?

I am in favor of removing Hussein, under the international scrutiny of the U.N. monitoring, which ensures that a predator like Bush doesn't loot.

debater10

As much as I hate pointing this out, as I feel it should be obvious, the site I referenced above post-dates your article. You're just a bit slow, I understand. You'll catch up at some point.

You got the reason for Bush's U.S. skinning Iraq, right here, in this newspaper quote.

Quote:

2.) Bush lied about WMDs in Iraq, because he claimed he knew them and he knew they were imminent and requiring an emergency war. So, he lied, because today it turns out he didn't know about WMDs in Iraq.

The evidence exists that there were, indeed, WMD's being produced in Iraq. I find it interesting that your position on this has grown more and more conservative. We've gone from "He fabricated 100% the reasons for war" to "he didn't know about WMDs in Iraq.

As soon as you are ready to provide a consistent position, you're more than welcome to try again.

debater10

The UN has refused to take action. France and Germany have to many economic interests to ever have the desire to eliminate an oppressive regime. If you are willing to stand idly by while they profit off of the deaths of thousands of people, and then threaten a UNSC veto for any action that would cut off their b lood money, then you are more than welcome to feel that way. I, unfortunately, do not view the UN as the be-all-end-all arbiter of what states should and should not do, especially when the motives of its members preempt their broader global obligations. In other words, the UN failed to do what it was chartered to do. Sad for it.

Ion

You are slower than me:

there are updates like this on U.S. contracts for oil in Iraq in The San Diego Union Tribune, up until two days ago.

So:

"You got the reason for Bush's U.S. skinning Iraq, right here, in this newspaper quote."

is correct.
Any evidence pertinent to 'imminent' WMDs threatening anybody?

Show me 'imminent' WMDs threatening anybody.
Is your grasp that is short:

Bush fabricated the war in Iraq:

.) from reasons (including WMDs he claimed he knew which turns to be a Bush lie);

to

.) mass killing Iraqis.

Optional

A quick question... Do you acually believe that 'liberating' iraq was any part of the reason why we invaded, or do you just think that the invasion was justified because it had the unintended side-effect of 'liberating' iraq? The difference is significant in some ways...

-me

Daggah

Some questions for debater10,

If we went there for reasons other than oil...why did we send forces to protect the Iraqi Oil Ministry from looting while leaving museums and hospitals defenseless?

If Iraqi citizens are so happy to see us there, why are so many rallying around Muslim clerics calling for the expulsion of all Americans in the region?

If Iraq is so happy we're there, why do they continue to attack us in guerilla-style attacks?

debater10

The two main objectives of the Iraq invasion were liberation of the Iraqi people from a totalitarian regime and the elimination of potential WMD's. Was tere one that took greater priority over the other? No. They were both goals of the operation.

Ion

Then U.S. has to work within U.N., out of respect of the U.S. signature and out of respect to the international community of countries.

Bush cannot loot oil, for example.

Daggah

So I would be correct in assuming that you support invading North Korea, China, Cuba, and many other countries around the world, right?

Right?

debater10

I need references, people! For obvious reasons, I am not going to take your word on any of these. But, I would say that the US, as officials have stated, ensured the safety of the oil fields to provide the new government with a source of funds. There are many in Iraq who resent US involvement. Unless you can give me some numbers, I'm afraid I can't tell you what the percentage is and how to acount for those who dissent. And the tactics that we are using are standard tactics. They are use dbecause our troops are not as familiar with the landscape as the enemy is. Also, as was displayed by the fact that saddam placed his AA guns in the middle of civilian areas to prevent them being bombed, the leaders of the opposition do not feel at all guilty about using Vietnam-esque tactics to take out US troops.