elmodog

I don't understand this. How does using a pronoun instead of the noun it represents make you a liar or hypocrite? Wouldn't god be smart enough to figure out that he is the "he", "him" and "his" in that song??

Sabine Grant

Practices yes..... I made it clear that religious practices are not to be protected by the freedom of speech. Prayer and hymn singing are a religious practice. Quoting from a religious document of any kind to support a speech is not a religious practice. Do we agree on the term practice now? or are you saying that quoting from any religious document should be prohibited under the Separation of Church and State for a student initiated graduation speech?

Toto

This thread is about a hymn. But the school district has a broader right to control the content of the student's speech, including her language and references, as long as she is speaking at an official school event. This is one of those cases where her rights to free speech are not absolute. I don't know what is so hard about this.

Dune

- the content of the student's speech, including her language and references, as long as she is speaking at an official school event. This is one of those cases where her rights to free speech are not absolute. -

So she should be allowed to say anything she wants to as long as it agrees with what you think is appropriate?
I thought there was something in the 1st amendment about not having the right to express your religeon curtailed. She can say whatever she wants about her faith. Just because she sings it or states it or tap dances it doesnt mean the school or the state is pushing any type of faith on anybody. She is a free individual. If she wants to say "I love god" or " The Great Pumpkin is my saviour" she can. The school does NOT have any right to censor her beliefs. Any more than it does you or me.

Daleth

Does one really have a right to free speech at a graduation ceremony? If I'd stood up and started talking (or singing) during mine, they'd have booted my butt out of there, even if I'd done it when it was my moment on the stage and no one else was speaking.

The school is putting on this event. They are granting her a few minutes to do a song. That doesn't have to mean they are granting her free reign. They don't have to let her say or sing a single thing. There is no RIGHT for her or anyone to use their ceremony in a way they don't approve of.

Dal

Toto

Not me, the school that is providing the microphone and her audience.

I'm pretty sure that the school would not allow her to do a strip tease, or give a speech glorifying Hitler, or sacrifice an animal, and I think the school would be within its rights.

The 1st amendment guarantees her right to exercise her religion, and guarantees her fellow students' rights not to be coerced into participating in a religious exercise.

Like I said, she is perfectly free to get a soapbox in a public square and sing her song. She just can't do it as part of an official school event.

Jewel

She is not being told that she cannot practice her religion. She is being told that she cannot force her views on other people during a state sponsered event. The First Amendment does not give anyone free reign to force their views on people when the state is footing the bill. They do have the right -- and the responsibility -- to limit what she is allowed to talk (or sing) about.

If the government goes into her church and tells her she can't sing her song there -- that would be infringing on her constitutional rights.

I can't tell you how sick I am of people with a martyr complex wasting tax payor money because they don't think it's fair being told that their rights do not include infringing on the rights of other people.:boohoo:

Dune

I can't tell you how sick I am of people with a martyr complex wasting tax payor money because they don't think it's fair being told that their rights do not include infringing on the rights of other people.

Except when it comes to athiest telling thiests they cant openly display thier faith.

So how is someone saying I love god offensive? if you dont believe in god, its just a silly thing other people say. Saying Buddah is keen or Mohammed is the truth isnt offensive, and if you are offended by it, you should ask yourself why? Does it slander others or you? No. Its just an affermation of one persons belief.
Saying "Vishnu is the truth, and I believe" is not shoving down anyones throat. However, stifling someone because you dont believe as they do is shoving athiesm down their throats.

Toto

It is offensive when a Christian uses a publicly funded forum to push their propaganda. That's all we are talking about here.

I would say the same thing about a Muslim using a graduation ceremony to say There is No God But Allah and Mohammed is His Prophet, and I imagine you would be with me on that.

Jewel

She can openly display her faith all she wants -- on her own time. She can stand on a street corner and tell passers by that they are going to Hell. Doesn't bother me. However, the state is not obligated to accomodate her or anyone else with a religious agenda when the state is paying for the event and venue. This does not infringe upon her rights in any fashion and it isn't shoving atheism down her throat to limit her speech in a state sponsered forum.