Amos

Hello blondegoddess, don't you feel special with so many people fighting for your liberation?

Celsus

Hi blondegoddess,

This sort of discussion would probably be better served in Secular Lifestyle and Support. As you can see, there are many, many tangents that one can go off on while discussing theism and atheism. Feel free to browse the General Religious Discussions forum as well, while the more technical side of the debate is handled in Biblical Criticism and Archaeology. My discussion with Radorth stopped being productive a long time ago, so ignore it. We're still human after all.

Joel

Malcolm

BlondeGoddess,

One of the things that I have found very useful is reading biographies of some great people who have deconverted - Darwin, with your comment on evolution above, is a very good example. He was initially a Christian, but his studies led him further and further from faith in God. However, his wife remained a devout Christian until her death, and they continued to love each other very much.

There were two major events in his life which are interesting - one was his discovering of evolution. He agonised for years over whether to publish or not, and was more or less pushed into it. The other event was the death of his 10yr old daughter. This also had a profound effect on him. Rather than reading the Origin of Species, may I recommend Darwin, his Daughter and Human Evolution

Someone commented above that there are other places to go when you leave your current Christian position, rather than just atheism. My own path took a long time and stopped in various places. May I recommend another "Leaving the fold" - this one by Ed Babinski which gives stories of people deconverting from fundamentalism to ecumenism, to universalism and to agnosticism as well as to atheism. Amazon has it here.

Whatever you do, don't rush things, don't be bullied by anyone on either side of the argument - it is much more than a two-way argument anyway!

Best wishes, Malcolm

Stephen T-B

"Oh Master, I am in trouble, for God no longer seems real to me."
Roadeath, for it is he: "My son, then there is sin in your heart."
"Master, how do I cleanse myself of this sin?"
"Pray to Our Saviour the Lord Jesus Christ and He shall cleanse you of it."

Later
"Oh Master, last night I prayed almost solidly from 8pm to 12 midnight that Our Saviour the Lord Jesus Christ should cleanse me from my sin. But alas, when I awoke this morning, God didn’t seem any more real to me than He had done the day before."
"Then your prayer, my son, was not sincerely meant."
"But I really, really want to be like you and know in my heart that God is real."
"No my son, you only think you really, really want to know in your heart that God is real because you don’t really, really want to be cleansed of your sin. You cleave to it as the fornicator cleaves to his whore."
"How then, Oh Master, may I be released from the chains that bind me to sin?"
"Pray to Our Saviour the Lord Jesus Christ and He shall release you."

Later.
"Oh Master, last night I prayed almost solidly from 7pm to 1am that Our Saviour the Lord Jesus Christ should release me from my love of sin. But when I awoke this morning, God didn’t seem any more real to me than He had done the day before."
"Then you dissemble in your heart my son. Tell me, do your play with yourself on a regular basis?"
"Not since last Thursday, Oh Master."
"But it’s only Saturday today."

Two weeks later.
"O Master, I have refrained from masturbation for two whole weeks, and still God seems no longer to be real to me."
"There remains a sin in your heart, my son. Tell me, when you see Josephine’s pert little breasts, do you imagine fondling them through her thin brassier?"
"Oh no, Oh Master. When I see Josephine’s pert little breasts, I immediately imagine I’m crawling across an arid desert, with sand in my eyes and my mouth. That usually does the trick."
"You seem to be on the right road, my son. Now you must open your heart to the Lord."
"Oh I shall, I shall, but how shall I do it?"
"Pray that Our Saviour the Lord Jesus Christ will open your heart, and if that is what you sincerely want, more than anything else in the world, be assured, my son, that God will vouchsafe you that gift."

Later.
"Oh Master, last night I prayed almost solidly from 6pm to 2am that Our Saviour the Lord Jesus Christ would open my heart, and I promised on my mother’s sweet life that it is what I want, more than anything else in the world. But alas, when I awoke this morning, God didn’t seem any more real to me than He had done the week before last."
"Then your soul, my son, is lost, and will burn in the fires of hell for all of eternity. Damn bad luck, but that’s the way it goes."

And offf the Great Roadeath strides, to spread his message of Salvation and Joy to all those who go to the Infidels Boards because God no longer seems real to them.

lunachick

LMAO!! :notworthy

And :notworthy to Stephin T-B, as well.


Blonde Goddess - good luck with it all.

I grew up with an agnostic mother and an atheist father, and have never been indoctrinated. If I wanted to explore Eastern mysticism, the Tarot, astrology, science, or anything at all, that was okay. I was free to do that fearlessly and guiltlessly.

I've been reading this thread and realise what some of you must go through with regards to your families, friends, communities, and inner self. It's quite frightening and makes me appreciate my own secular upbringing all the more.

I see Christianity as I see the Moonies, or Heavens Gate, or Scientology - they are all CULTS. The difficulties people have in letting go is testimony to that. All religions are nothing more than cults. I can't wait for the day when humanity is free from them.

Travel well, BG.

Rousseau_CHN

wow, what a following you have here and you've been here for only two days...way to go, blondie

HelenM

I don't understand how you can consider your assumption that blondegoddess probably was never a Christian, 'your business'.

She didn't ask, did she, whether you thought she was a Christian or not? I thought this thread was her request to talk to atheists who used to be Christians, about their experiences.

I don't that you know nearly enough about her to make the assertions you've made about her former faith.

And even if you're right, all you're really saying is "You didn't believe exactly as I now believe". And in saying what you're saying you're portraying a God who is happy to have 'near-misses' all over the place i.e. lots of people who thought they were Christians but never really were.

Are you sure your thoughts take into account their legitimate experiences - or is it more of an attempt to avoid the problematic implications to your own theology if someone can really walk that far away from God, having been genuinely saved?

At least you could read the atheists' testimony thread before telling us what you assume about it. I mean, what person makes assumptions without bothering to read the evidence before their very eyes? To have any credibility why don't you go through the thread and point out to us the conclusive proof that each person on that thread who claimed to be a Christian, in fact never received Christ by faith? And if you don't have time to do that then maybe it would be better not to speculate that none of them did.

blondegoddess I'm not a Christian-turned-atheist so I don't have a testimony to share here. I would have told you about the atheist testimony thread but many others beat me to it. I wish you the best in finding a lasting peace in your life. You said in one post that you don't know whether you're heading towards atheism. Well, this is not really the converse of a Christian group. You won't be pressed to become an atheist here. You might be challenged on your current beliefs if you post them on one of the discussion/debate forums. But there is no overall 'goal' on these boards to make everyone an atheist. If you find a way out of your current discomfort then I think lots of people here will be happy for you. They won't presuppose what that way is, though. Although you have run into it on this thread, I don't think you'll find your experiences invalidated here, in general. And as others have said, if you want a thread free from debate you can post on the support board - SL&S - where the kind of comments you've received here would be deleted as inappropriate. You certainly don't have to retreat there though, unless you want to!

Helen

Buffman

Hi and Welcome from central Florida 'blondgoddess'.

My, oh my! And here I thought that the World Wrestling Federation was only on Pay-for-View TV. I was wrong. I am thoroughly exhausted after reading all these pages and posts. I doubt that a "lights out, no holds barred, wrestle until only one team is left standing" could be more fun and exciting to watch than this match has been up until now. However, just in case you aren't a sports enthusiast, I have a few comments for your consideration.

1. Professional wrestling is not really a sport. It is scripted entertainment for money. Big Bucks! It is phoney!

2. Organized religion is professional entertainment for money...even bigger bucks. It, too, is phoney and based on a script called the Holy Bible/Qur'an/sacred writings.

3. Both wrestling and religion have good guys and bad guys competing for some sort of title. However there is a very important difference. The wrestlers know who is going to win before they ever step into the ring. Though many of the paying fans sincerely believe that they are intentionally attempting to injure each other, the wrestlers have no such intention because it is their livelihood. That is not the case for religious competitions.

These Sects, Denominations and Cults (they are actually all cults) sincerely attempt to defeat their opponents by whatever means might be available to them. They intentionally seek to inflict bodily harm on the designated enemy of the match...and who better to inflict this bodily harm to achieve the desired victory than some supernatural, all-knowing, all-perfect, all-powerful super God upon whom they can rely when things aren't going well...or even if they are?

4. The Jews synthesized their monotheistic super god from all the various gods that had come before. The Christians plagiarized their super god from the Jews. The Muslims created their super god from the Jews and the Christians. --- Were you aware that there are over 4,200 religions, churches, denominations, religious bodies, faith groups, tribes, cultures, movements, ultimate concerns, etc. in existence today? I wager that each one has followers who sincerely believe that their faith beliefs are the only completely right/true ones. Why do you suppose that is the case? Why do you suppose that they would be willing to die defending/advancing their faith beliefs? They can't all be right!

bg, I have used one particular philosophy to help guide me through the challenging times. I have posted it many times before because I believe that it is an excellent one from which to start any new journey. It is from Robert A. Heinlein's 1973 book, "Time Enough for Love."

What are the facts? Again and again and again---what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what "the stars foretell," avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable "verdict of history"---what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the Facts!

To assist you in gaining a better foundation in what facts really are, and how they are used in the study of Evolution, I would like to recommend that you read the information on the page at this URL ...and when time permits, the rest of the information in this booklet.

http://books.nap.edu/html/creationism/introduction.html

Though I hate labels, I have been a "Non Supernaturalist" (for want of a meaningful semantic expression) for 52 of my 68 years. Please don't hesitate to e-mail or PM me if you wish to discuss some of the issues that you may be encountering during this very confusing and anxiety filled period in your life. (It didn't take you long to determine who the believers and non-believers were who have been posting in your topic. That is impressive.) My very best to you on this new and exciting journey into the light.

Stephen T-B

SIXTY EIGHT!
I shall be 60 in March, god willing (ho ho) and thought there couldn’t possibly be anyone older than that at Infidels.
It may be the case that I am but a child to you, Buffman, but our accumulated experience as infidels of 92 years isn’t, I think, to be sniffed at.
Think on - as they are supposed to say in Yorkshire - BD: there is, after all, Life After Doubt.

(Helen M - what a thoughtful and sensible post that was.)
Best wishes
S.T-B

beth

I have decided that I am no longer a Christian. I have not yet made the decision that there is no god, but I no longer believe in the Christian god. To all that say that I was never saved and that I had no faith, I think you are rationalizing in such a way because you are in fear that this could happen to you. You do not know the devotion to God that I felt. you do not know how faithful I was to him. I tell you that I was probably a better and more on fire Christian than you all. I suffered for my faith. I loved God enough to give my life for him because I could never repay him enough for his sacrifice he made for me. I was a prayer warrior. I fasted. I helped in charities. People have told me that I am the most Godly woman that they know. Well now I am no longer. I turn from your God because I do not believe he is there. I have prayed to him all night to reveal himself to me. Either he isn't there, or he does not love all of his creation enough to come down from his thrown to help one who is hurting and pleading for him.