Viti

Was Satan not an angel, God's favorite IIRC, that rebelled and took other angels with him?

yguy

Yes. So how did Satan become evil? Can't answer with authority, but I think he fondled the idea that he knew more than the Boss. Where did that idea come from? It was a puny imitation of the egotism God has. He can feel like a God because, well, He is.

I doubt this will satisfy anyone, but it's the best I can do.

yguy

Not sure I can buy that. The fact that a statement is internally consistent doesn't mean it has any validity. The only way I know of to test such things is to draw a logical inference from the assertion and see if it leads to a contradiction. I don't yet see how to do that in this case.

But you have not shown that what you say IS logically possible. I would suggest that you lack sufficient information to make a judgment on that.

But theoretical possibility is of no value here.

There isn't an assertion that was ever made that can't be logically deconstructed to the point where doubt is cast on its veracity.

Would PoE be "purpose of evil"?

Human illogic, in this case, is the idea that because you can't see anything wrong with a statement, it has validity. There isn't a man on the planet who knows how to create a bacterium, for crying out loud, and you have the chutzpah to say love could be created without temptation? It's insane.

Look: love isn't love if it is not an act of free will, correct? How then could there be love without the opportunity to betray?

OK - ooog is O3 God. Hadn't seen that one before.

Actually, I would say there is a very strong correspondence between the attributes of parents and those of such a God. From the POV of an infant, for instance, parents are gods. The child's life is in their hands. To say there are no parallels seems to me to elevate binary logic to an undeserved status.

yguy

To me, it is the concept of a universe without God which is nonsensical.

You don't want to know.

Dr Rick

Not sure you know what logic or validity is, but even that doesn't matter. A rational, logical argument is not dependant upon someone else's abilty to comprehend or "buy" it. That you don't understand something does not argue against it; at best, all you are claiming is that you don't understand what you are reading...

...as this nonsense illustrates. There is no requirement to demonstrate logical possibility; if there was, we would have to assume that all possibilities are impossible until proven possible, an inherently contradictory and therefore illogical position.

All possibilities are possible; only those things that are impossible are impossible.

To illustrate, let's begin with the possibility that a god can exist. If we assume your position that "you have not shown that what you say IS logically possible. I would suggest that you lack sufficient information to make a judgment on that" then right-off we must assume that it is logically impossible for a god to exist until you show otherwise. Since everything is assumed to be impossible until proven logically possible under the system you have implicitly proposed, nothing that you can assert is logically possible, and so every one of your arguements in favor of a god's existence are illogical before they are even asserted.

There is no logically possible way to prove that gods can exist without assuming something. If we assume nothing is possible without first showing "that what you say IS logically possible", then nothing is logically possible, and so existence isn't logically possible.

That just isn't logical...



...and neither is that.

That is just bizzare.

You've abandoned logic and reason; heck, there's no evidence that you ever employed them at all. Your arguement is nothing more than you believe what you want to believe.


Rick

yguy

No, you have jumped to a false conclusion. You make the common mistake of thinking that one must assume either possibility or impossibility. There is a third alternative, but it is likely too simple for you to grasp.

Are you under the impression that I intend to prove that God exists, or can exist? Not so. As I've said elsewhere, it is impossible to prove His existence. My purpose on this board, in the main, is to expose the fallacious logic of those who say a Biblical God can't exist, but not to replace their thinking with mine. If I scrape away the encrusted lies, the truth will reveal itself.

Dr Rick

Assuming that something must either be possible or impossible is not a "mistake," common or otherwise, nor is it a "false conclusion."

The characteristics of possibilty and impossibility are mutually exclusive, Any event is either possible or impossible. There is "no third alternative" that "is likely too simple for you to grasp." It's far more likely that you don't have any rational argument.

That's simple to grasp.

An irrelevant question, but to answer it; I'm under the impression that you are just babbling nonsense. You have not presented a coherent and logical argument, and I'm under the impression that you can't.

What you've said elsewhere is irrelevant to this thread. On this thread, you are babbling nonsense.

Fine, but that does not explain why you are babbling nonsense.

If you lay an egg, your assertions will still be nonsense.

Rick

yguy

Sure it is. It's also incorrect.

Thomas Metcalf

Originally posted by emotional :

Contemporary proponents of arguments from suffering don't ask that God create Disneyland. The arguments are motivated by the obvious fact that there is too much suffering and premature death, not that there is any at all. A world in which cancer was 5% less painful would be a better world than this one.

We could certainly grow and advance in that world, because God is omnipotent.

djmullen

YGuy wrote:


quote:
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Originally posted by LadyShea
Was Satan not an angel, God's favorite IIRC, that rebelled and took other angels with him?
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Yes. So how did Satan become evil? Can't answer with authority, but I think he fondled the idea that he knew more than the Boss. Where did that idea come from? It was a puny imitation of the egotism God has. He can feel like a God because, well, He is.

I doubt this will satisfy anyone, but it's the best I can do.

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The original argument was that angels (including Satan) have free will, which hurts your argument, yet you seem to be agreeing that they do have it.

This satisfies me.