Priapus

jess: I think those scriptures you cited are referring to worship of Asherah by the Canaanites. Apparently there were a lot of Goddess cults aroud the Hebrews and its possible that worship of Asherah preceded worship of Yahweh.

Pretty crazy, but I think from reading the Hebrew scriptures that God is most definately male. The entire bible discusses women as property and basically seductresses who lead men away from the faith. I think the whole thing speaks much more of men's fear of women than anything else. TO paraphrase Camile Paglia 'All men have to crawl out of a mother goddes metaphor, and the realization that they were but a scrap of tissue in their mother's womb' So a male god creating a male that a female is taken from is a way of turning all that on its head, and maybe alieviating some really insecure sheep herders.

Kenny

I have simply drawn inferences from what Christians have come to believe about God based on what we believe to be God's revelation of Himself through Scripture. I'm not really interested, on this thread, of convincing anyone that such is actually the case, but I do think it would be nice if atheists had an accurate view of Christian theology before they blindly attack what they don't really understand.

God Bless,
Kenny

Kenny

Well, let me clear it up for you. I refer to God with a personal pronoun because God is a personal being – it would not be fitting to refer to God as “it.” Unfortunately, English does not have any third person singular personal pronouns which are also gender neutral. Neither does Hebrew or Greek. In order to refer to God with a singular third person personal pronoun, therefore, I am forced to choose either a masculine or feminine gender. I pick a masculine pronoun in accordance with the traditional Biblical usage. I do not believe, however, that the transcendent God of the universe is confined to a particular gender.

Incidentally, the Hebrews were aware of this as well. The Hebrew tradition handled the issue by consistently referring to God in masculine terms, but frequently referring to God as taking on what were culturally viewed as feminine roles – such as nurturing, feeding, sheltering, etc. In one place a metaphor for God is used in which God is described a mother hen who gathers her chicks under her wings. In a couple of other places, God’s love for Israel is compared to a mother’s love for her children (sorry, but I don’t have time to go look up the references right now). Jesus picks up this tradition in the New Testament by constantly referring to God as a “Father,” but assigning to God character traits such as being nurturing and compassionate which, again, are character traits that would have culturally been associated with motherhood.

Neither. God transcends cultural ideas concerning gender and possesses what we would consider to be both masculine and feminine characteristics. God is a non-corporal being so physical/biological definitions also do not apply. Referring to God as “He” is simply a Biblical convention.

God Bless,
Kenny

[ December 02, 2002: Message edited by: Kenny ]</p>

Oxymoron

Kenny said:
What I find interesting and hugely disappointing is that you obviously find the concept of your God having a gender illogical, yet are quite happy to adopt and defend a "tradition" that at the very least miscommunicates the nature of It to millions (you will pardon me for using the impersonal form, I have no personal relationship with your imaginary friend). If I were a cynical man, I might conclude that you were being disingenuous here, feebly trying to hide the fact that Judiasm and its offsprings are hugely patriarchal institutions that condemn women to being slaves, baby factories, and second-rate citizens because they do not share the gender of their creator and (alleged) messiahs. Just as well I'm not cynical, then

Vibr8gKiwi

Mormon's believe in a "Heavenly Mother" so I guess these questions don't arise for them.

Jobar

I'm of the opinion that it would be nice if theists had an accurate view of Christian theology before they blindly believe in what they don't really understand.

Answerer

Well, Kenny, you, christians have lots of different and funny interpretations ranging from spiritual to fundamental. The christians around me always proudly proclaimed that their God is a He, not a She/He which is what you love to think. Since there is no major general agreements on the intepretation of the bible among christians, how do you expect us to have an 'accurate view' of the christian theology?

Sabine Grant

Hello Answerer ! an accurate view of christianity is not as important as a view which avoids labeling and stereotyping.(IMO). Atheism varies from strong to weak atheism. We vary from liberal to fundamentalist.( not comparing the validity of the ideologies but the use of the terms).
The interpretation I presented in my previous post could easily be" taken down" by another christian.
Objectively, christians tend to project in their interpretation what may fit them.
There is one reality which needs to be taken in account is that the Bible has been translated in various versions and at times pre interpreted ones.
IMO the loss of the original meaning of the text has been caused in part thru the translation.
Being multi lingual, I can read the Bible in 3 languages and each time I compare the translations in those three languages,there are always nuances.
Not to deviate from the topic, but I wanted to add a few things to your comments.

Sabine Grant

I want to point that there are patriarchal cultures with the same condemnation of women which have nothing to do with judeo christianism.

Mageth

I want to point that there are patriarchal cultures with the same condemnation of women which have nothing to do with judeo christianism.

So what?

Kenny et al:

Instead of the singular masculine "He", why not refer to god as "They"? Being the three-in-one and all, this would seem to fit. In addition, it seems to fit with the plural "Elohim" used in Genesis.