Cicero

Zundel does not belong in jail. He belongs in public, where we may mock him freely, as the piece of human garbage that he is.

He is a disgrace to all that is bipedial.

York

i hear what your saying Cicero but i really do feel people who say things like zundel does have a right to speak. zundel should not be in jail, he should be free to speak his part and let others like at the nizkor site counter what he has to say.

then whoever listens can make their own mind up and choose to believe what makes the most sense. i believe free speach is very important.

heartsonfire

The Nazis waged (anti)intellectual war on such enlightenment-era "bourgeoise" notions.

Cicero

1. Ridiculing that wretched excuse for a man in no way violates his freedom of speech.

2. You support freedom of speech? Too bad your Nazi heroes didn't.

fromtheright

Dr. Rick,

I haven't read the entire thread, just the first few posts and I must admit that when I read your first post I thought you were being too hard on York, then I jumped over to the last page and saw his comment about reading the NSDAP platform and liking it--you were right, this guy is some AB/skinhead/Nazi type.

SLD was right, holocaust deniers are dumber than dirt, but they are both stupid and evil.

Sickening.

Cicero

York and I have had a short PM exchange, and from what I gather, he is a youngster who got taken in by propaganda.

He has, he says, read a little more history, and has reversed his position, and now wishes to see the most factual account of the era...I suggested William Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.

Don't be too hard on the guy...It is the duty of adults to advise and correct youngsters when they fall for propaganda like that, which is far more productive.

Yes, I know I was as hard on him as anyone, but now that I know the situation, it makes a little more sense.

RED DAVE

York sent me private message as well.

I find his naivite unconvincing. I could be wrong, but I also note that fpy has disappeared as well.

RED DAVE

York

right now im reading A Jewish Defector Warns America By Benjamin H. Freedman.

this link i got is from a racist site.
http://www.themodernreligion.com/jihad/freedman.html


after a google search i found this one from a religious site. i havent read this one yet but it seem to have a second part to it.
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/facts1.htm

what do you all make of this benjamin fellow?

Vorkosigan

Who cares? There isn't any Jewish conspiracy to control the world. Come back to reality, York. Read some good history books. You can't think about this stuff on its own, you need some background and context.

For one thing, it is easy to see that Freedman's history of WWI is bullshit. Why don't you do some real research? The desperate time for the Allies was 1917, not 1916. Terror tactics in the Nazi boycott of Jews started right away, in 1933, not 1938.

And here is the big lie:

The only reason that there was any feeling in Germany against Jews was that they were responsible for World War I and for this world-wide boycott.

This is such complete magnificent horseshit, it is hard to imagine any thinking person could take it seriously. Right-wing nationalist anti-jewish sentiment in German is quite old, dating back to the 18th century and writers Ehrman, Fichte, Hegel, Trietschke, and so on.

Here is a set of lecture notes on German anti-semitism. As you can see, it long predates WWI.

In other words, Freedman is lying through his teeth. Even the simplest net search will confirm this. So why do you believe it?

Vorkosigan

deafpilgrim

It seems some people will believe anything BUT hard evidience.

York, I can believe the Holocaust actally happened; I've met survivors of those camps and I've also been to the Holocaust Memorial in DC. Yes, the Jews were indeed the main targets but they were not the only one being targeted; gays, gypsies and the disabled were also sent to the camps.

It has been my observation that if one group is a target of rasicts other minority groups are likey to have problems with those rascists too.

Had I been living in Germany, I would have sent to one of those camps. No, I am not jewish and I am of German descent through my mother's side. The reason why I'd have been sent to the camps is that I was born deaf. According to the Nazis, I'd have been considered a burden on the State. Thus in order to make the state strong, at best I'd have been sterilized and at worst, extermited in one of those camps. Ah, the joys of Social Darwinism.

I remember meeting a old Deaf German who survived the camps and he had one of those infamous tattoos on his arm. I remember others asking if he was jewish. The answer was no, he wasn't jewish. He had been thrown into those camps because he was deaf. I'm also told that most of the German deaf were sterilized during the Nazi era. This was not a painless procedure and it was done under brutal conditions without few or no painkillers. Just the thought of it is enough to make me shudder.

York, I do not understand how some people can have so little empathy for others that they can not understand why others would shudder at such a deed. I hope you are not one of those people with so little empathy for other human beings.

As a result of these historical facts, I'm wary of anything that smacks of fascism and eugenics. No amount of denial can change the brutality of fascism.


I hope you're willing to put some effort into proving your case. Thus far you've failed miserably to prove that the Holocaust never happened.