Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Maverick · 06-11-2003, 09:22 AM

Eric,

I can sympathize with you. Just last night I came the realization that my brother is racist.

He was visiting us along with a couple of close cousins that we don't get to see much anymore. Discussion drifted to housing and the problems with certain areas. My brother then launches into how the "minorities are the problem" The "damn Mexicans and Hmongs are the worst".

I quickly changed the subject, but man it was embarrassing. Ironically one of my cousins had mentioned a half-hour eariler that he suprisingly found much less open bigotry where he is stationed in southern Georgia versus here in Northeastern Wisconsin. Nice of my brother to prove his point.

Maverick

AquaVita · 06-11-2003, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by braces_for_impact
Now, I'm off to do more deprogramming...

Kudos to you!

I can't say how glad I am to see a parent teaching their children the truth about their fellow human beings.

Keep it up!

nj_heathens · 06-11-2003, 10:30 AM

My father, a good man in most other respects, also had racist views of most anyone non-White. Being from a very white, heavily German and Irish part of southern Indiana, he concentrated mainly on blacks, and, of course, as a WW2 veteran, the Japanese. "Sneaky people," he'd always say. "Even today?" I'd ask. "Are the Japanese people of today still responsible for Pearl Harbor?" "If so, does that mean you and I are responsible for slavery?" I could always tell he couldn't resolve his hatred, but he kept it just the same.

One time he said, "Let's put 'em all back on a boat to where they came from." My response: "Great idea, Dad! I've always wanted to visit Ireland! When are we leaving?"

On a good note, he didn't indoctrinate his children with his racist views.

Mrs. Heathen

beth · 06-11-2003, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Daleth
I found out when I was 19 or 20-ish that my mother is terrified of black people, especially men. I can't remember how it came up in conversation. But as it turns out, she was aware of her prejudice and made an effort never to let her children see it. I was simultaneously shocked to be learning something like that about a person I thought I knew so well and incredibly proud of her for having avoided passing along the prejudice.

I think we all have predudices. I don't consider myself to be a racist and I have always had black friends and I have fought my family on their racist comments. This being said, I am terrified in "black/crack town." I am white and whenever I have to drive through, I am clearly not welcome. If I have to stop in a convenience store or gas station, I feel very threatened, especially if I am well dressed or sparkling. During these times, I am actually fearful of black people, but I am not anymore fearful of black men than white men any other time.

Quote:

Well... that's sort of a tough one for me, personally. But the fact is, you've got to start out with the understanding that you can never know everything about another person and the no one is perfect. You can love what you do know about someone. You can be honest and open yourself to encourage others to be the same so you can get to know them better. But finally you've got to accept that there will always be something you don't know, and that the 'secrets' -- even the really ugly secrets -- do not have to negate all the things you know and love about them.

Dal

I agree with this.

Never · 06-11-2003, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TollHouse
Man, that shit is whacked.

I know where you're coming from though, I love my dad a great deal but from time to time I hear him carry on about Jews and queers. I usually challenge such views but then I'm viewed as the "kid from the ivory tower" who has no "street-smarts".

I think it is largely a generational thing though, our parents where raised in a different world.

I don't believe it is generational. My parents (born in the 20's) and my grandmother (born in 1898) were not the slightest bit racist. The only thing I remember my dad saying that was remotely close to the subject was when we were kids (60's) and went on vacation in the deep south. Dad said if anyone asked where we were from to say West Virginia instead of Ohio because there was still resentment of "northerners", yet we obviously didn't have a southern accent. Then he had to explain why people might feel that way. It was always obvious from his actions that he didn't treat anyone any different.

Daleth · 06-11-2003, 11:16 AM

Quote:

I don't consider myself to be a racist and I have always had black friends and I have fought my family on their racist comments. This being said, I am terrified in "black/crack town." I am white and whenever I have to drive through, I am clearly not welcome. If I have to stop in a convenience store or gas station, I feel very threatened, especially if I am well dressed or sparkling.

Well, my mother is afraid of 'em up to and including 55-year-old men in business suits carrying briefcases who politely hold the door open for her as she's entering her office building or in police uniforms instructin a neighborhood watch program. Not exactly the same thing.

It came up in some conversation where she was admitting she was ashamed of how she felt and was glad none of her kids were that way. Probably something to do with me dating a Jamaican man or my cousin marrying a black woman.

In a ghetto situation, I don't care what race or nationality people are... poverty breeds crime.

Dal

ETA, lest I be misconstrued, no, I don't believe the poor are all criminals.

auto-da-fe · 06-11-2003, 11:49 AM

Don't feel too bad Eric if you didn't realize it until you were 20. I first realized that my mother was a racist when I was 18 and she picked up a stray cat that was pure black from head to tail. She named it "Reggin". At first I couldn't figure out why she named it such an odd name until she told me to spell it backwards.

After that I started noticing all the other racist crap she would spew. It really got disgusting when I paid close attention. Sometimes though, we don't see it until someone points it out, or something blatantly obvious happens to show it to us. Especially in family members that we spend great amounts of time with.

RevDahlia · 06-11-2003, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blondegoddess
I think we all have predudices. I don't consider myself to be a racist and I have always had black friends and I have fought my family on their racist comments. This being said, I am terrified in "black/crack town." I am white and whenever I have to drive through, I am clearly not welcome. If I have to stop in a convenience store or gas station, I feel very threatened, especially if I am well dressed or sparkling. During these times, I am actually fearful of black people, but I am not anymore fearful of black men than white men any other time.

I agree that all of us are racists to some extent. It's impossible to grow up in such a racist/classist culture and not absorb at least a little of it. The trick is to address one's own racism, be aware that it sucks, and work on it; it's a lifelong process.

Not long ago my manthing and I went to a jazz bar where we were literally the only white people in the place, and it was packed. I immediately felt guilty and uncomfortable... thinking "gawd, you guys probably come here to take a vacation from people like me." Manthing is a musician, though, and he started talking to the band and wound up jamming with them and the awkwardness disappeared -- being reminded that we were all there to enjoy the same things made it a lot easier. Just being aware of the things folks have in common, not the differences for once.

HaysooChreesto! · 06-11-2003, 04:16 PM

Wait a minute. You're 20 years old and you've never heard your parents say anything racist until now? That makes no sense. I mean, you did grow up in their house?
Sounds to me like your being a little too sensitive or looking for some reason good or not to be upset with them.

Now that I think about it, I knew my parents had certain elements of racism (although I think that's an inappropriate word in this case) when I was 7. Something's rotten here.

Monkeybot · 06-11-2003, 04:45 PM

I think it's possible to have some subconscious inkling that one's parents or relatives are racist -- but a lot of times it takes a blatantly racist remark for it to hit you full on.

My grandfather was born in 1920 in Arkansas, and definitely picked up some attitudes towards blacks that were common in the South at the time. I sort of knew that, but I didn't really consider him "racist" until one day when I was about 17. Out of nowhere, while we were watching a baseball game of all things, he gobsmacked us all with a totally offensive joke about black people. I'd always sort of known he had those attitudes, but it wasn't until he told the joke that it really hit me... "Holy shit, grampa's... a racist!"

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06-11-2003, 09:22 AM	#11
Maverick Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin Posts: 6,367	Eric, I can sympathize with you. Just last night I came the realization that my brother is racist. He was visiting us along with a couple of close cousins that we don't get to see much anymore. Discussion drifted to housing and the problems with certain areas. My brother then launches into how the "minorities are the problem" The "damn Mexicans and Hmongs are the worst". I quickly changed the subject, but man it was embarrassing. Ironically one of my cousins had mentioned a half-hour eariler that he suprisingly found much less open bigotry where he is stationed in southern Georgia versus here in Northeastern Wisconsin. Nice of my brother to prove his point. Maverick

06-11-2003, 10:30 AM	#13
nj_heathens Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ewing, NJ Posts: 447	My father, a good man in most other respects, also had racist views of most anyone non-White. Being from a very white, heavily German and Irish part of southern Indiana, he concentrated mainly on blacks, and, of course, as a WW2 veteran, the Japanese. "Sneaky people," he'd always say. "Even today?" I'd ask. "Are the Japanese people of today still responsible for Pearl Harbor?" "If so, does that mean you and I are responsible for slavery?" I could always tell he couldn't resolve his hatred, but he kept it just the same. One time he said, "Let's put 'em all back on a boat to where they came from." My response: "Great idea, Dad! I've always wanted to visit Ireland! When are we leaving?" On a good note, he didn't indoctrinate his children with his racist views. Mrs. Heathen

06-11-2003, 11:49 AM	#17
auto-da-fe Veteran Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: edge of insanity Posts: 1,609	Don't feel too bad Eric if you didn't realize it until you were 20. I first realized that my mother was a racist when I was 18 and she picked up a stray cat that was pure black from head to tail. She named it "Reggin". At first I couldn't figure out why she named it such an odd name until she told me to spell it backwards. After that I started noticing all the other racist crap she would spew. It really got disgusting when I paid close attention. Sometimes though, we don't see it until someone points it out, or something blatantly obvious happens to show it to us. Especially in family members that we spend great amounts of time with.

06-11-2003, 04:16 PM	#19
HaysooChreesto! Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: SoCal USA Posts: 7,737	Wait a minute. You're 20 years old and you've never heard your parents say anything racist until now? That makes no sense. I mean, you did grow up in their house? Sounds to me like your being a little too sensitive or looking for some reason good or not to be upset with them. Now that I think about it, I knew my parents had certain elements of racism (although I think that's an inappropriate word in this case) when I was 7. Something's rotten here.

06-11-2003, 04:45 PM	#20
Monkeybot Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: North Carolina Posts: 8,102	I think it's possible to have some subconscious inkling that one's parents or relatives are racist -- but a lot of times it takes a blatantly racist remark for it to hit you full on. My grandfather was born in 1920 in Arkansas, and definitely picked up some attitudes towards blacks that were common in the South at the time. I sort of knew that, but I didn't really consider him "racist" until one day when I was about 17. Out of nowhere, while we were watching a baseball game of all things, he gobsmacked us all with a totally offensive joke about black people. I'd always sort of known he had those attitudes, but it wasn't until he told the joke that it really hit me... "Holy shit, grampa's... a racist!"

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