Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Riddick · 08-08-2004, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCH

Most people also don't make the score Tiger Woods got on a specific set of 18 holes the fundamental driving force behind their life. If someone told me that I should be doing this, then I damned sure would go in person to see him play those 18 holes before dedicating my life to them. If I'm just checking the scores and they aren't that important to me, then I'll probably take it at face value, however.

Another counter-argument: the more unlikely the event, the higher the standard of evidence. For instance, I am aware that people get 5 under par quite often, even on difficult courses. I may be impressed that he's managed to do this for the 20th time in a row, but it's not that sensational. If one reporter, however claimed that Tiger had gotten a score of 25 on the 18 holes, then I would definitely not believe him without checking up on it myself, since scoring 50 under par is not something that is common, or even easily believable.

Now, if you told me that Tiger had been struck in the head with a golf ball on the 17th hole, lay dead for several days and then got up, perfectly well, and landed a hole-in-one on the 18th immediately, I wouldn't even bother looking into it, as it's so absurd that you could only possibly be joking, or perhaps insane. This is what you are expecting us to take at face value.

You've abandoned Skepticism in favor of Ignorance.

No one can help you now.

jdlongmire · 08-08-2004, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by breathilizer

What error?

Not you. The Buffster and I were doing a dance. We got spanked. Now we make nice...

jdlongmire · 08-08-2004, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by breathilizer

Do you guys ever listen to yourselves and ask, "Has my position been shot down numerous times before?"

See the OP.

Quote:

You're betting on Pascal's Wager. How about this: What if you are wrong? I suppose you'll focus on death and say, "So what?" But divert your attention to life. If you are wrong, then you are wasting this life and probably annoying the hell out of a lot of people.

mebbe so, but I like my odds...and some folks think I am charming... :angel:

Quote:

Also, you are supporting a practice which has led to the hindrance of many scientific/medical advances, and is still continuing to do so.

This is malarkey. What practice?

Quote:

You support, willingly or not, the vicious hate crimes against blacks, gays, and muslims. You support pushing religious ideologies onto other people through the government, no matter what your personal view on it is.

Wha? No more than you support Stalinism, blah, blah, blah...this is silly.

Quote:

So ask again... What if we are wrong? Well if we are wrong, then so be it. Hopefully whatever God exists will be a merciful God, such as the one you claim exists. If he isn't, then so what? Odds are he won't be merciful to you either, seeing as how you having killed any infidels today.

Again I say, wha?

Quote:

But if you are wrong, you are supporting the slow deterioration of individuality and human progress, again, whether you feel like it or not.

allright, I give, you win. just stop hitting me with this stuff before I smother...

Buffman · 08-08-2004, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdlongmire

mebbe so, but I like my odds.

I don't know the total number of deaths in the last 2000 years, but it must be a mighty big number. The number of confirmed resurrections is zero. Even the Lottery offers better odds than that. :devil3:

jdlongmire · 08-09-2004, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffman

I don't know the total number of deaths in the last 2000 years, but it must be a mighty big number. The number of confirmed resurrections is zero. Even the Lottery offers better odds than that. :devil3:

I have not had enough coffee to respond in a coherent fashion to this blatant attempt to draw this thread even further of-track so I respond with...

SEZ YOU!

Hedshaker · 08-09-2004, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdlongmire

I have not had enough coffee to respond in a coherent fashion to this blatant attempt to draw this thread even further of-track so I respond with...

SEZ YOU!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffman
The number of confirmed resurrections is zero.

Might I suggest a couple of strong coffees with extra caffeine

Orbit

Buffman · 08-09-2004, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdlongmire

I have not had enough coffee to respond in a coherent fashion to this blatant attempt to draw this thread even further of-track so I respond with...

SEZ YOU!

(I don't think coffee is the problem.) :rolling:

That link is much appreciated. It's hilarious. Bible verses to confirm the validity of the Bible myths. :banghead: Too bad that you are unable to cite any verified resurrections to help improve your confidence in the odds...especially considering how many equally sincere believers are among those that died believing as you do. As far as drawing this thread off track, I am merely providing potential answers for the question/statements you have asked/made ...from just one non-believer's world view. (I suspect that I am motivated to do so because of the use of the word "never" in the OP. "Never" and "always" are loaded words.)

Kassiana · 08-09-2004, 08:07 AM

I do not agree with your contention that fear of the unknown and death are "unfair, unhealthy" generalizations.
--I'm not afraid of the unknown or of death, nor do I think that if someone is, that must be the motivation for their religious beliefs. The generalization that the fear of the unknown and death causes religious belief is unfair and unhealthy; similarly, categorizing me with those people is unfair to me simply because I have religious beliefs. I had thought the above was obvious. I hope it is now clear to you.

abe smith · 08-09-2004, 08:25 AM

Chamber musicians play splendidly Beethoven quartets and nobody is 'conducting". ( Having a beat helps. Or they agree together beforehand about tempo.) And what about jazz combos doing what jazz musicians do: 'extemporizing" is the word I can recall at midday; ( what do they call it?)
Hey! so Old Bach WAS God! shuwer! :notworthy

Buffman · 08-09-2004, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kassiana

I do not agree with your contention that fear of the unknown and death are "unfair, unhealthy" generalizations.
--I'm not afraid of the unknown or of death, nor do I think that if someone is, that must be the motivation for their religious beliefs. The generalization that the fear of the unknown and death causes religious belief is unfair and unhealthy; similarly, categorizing me with those people is unfair to me simply because I have religious beliefs. I had thought the above was obvious. I hope it is now clear to you.

Good heavens no! Your beliefs are your beliefs. I am addressing only your statement that a fear of death and the unknown are unfair and unhealthy generalizations. I apologize for not going into a deeper discussion of how humans develop the belief systems that they do. Unfortunately to do so would require far more time and effort than I suspect either of us would wish to contribute to a broader and more accurate understanding of exactly how the human body is formed and functions. My contention is that fear of death and the unknown are perfectly normal, healthy and genetic characteristics of our species. Are you saying that they aren't?

I am not saying that they are the "only" factors that contribute to humans developing a belief in the supernatural. Some of the other factors are curiosity, experience, education, the reproductive drive, etc.

Might I ask you to consider how it came to be that you do not, presently, fear death and the unknown? Were you always of that belief? I seriously doubt it. If you were never fearful of anything, it would mean that you were born with a complete mastery of your endocrine system...something that is highly unlikely...unless you can walk on water also.

Here are just a few of the reasons that I have arrived at the position I hold on this issue.

http://www.sirinet.net/~jgjohnso/nervous.html

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ult...ges/C/CNS.html

http://arbl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/hboo...hys/endocrine/

Even though I do not believe that the title of this next URL is as accurate as I might like, you may find it very interesting because it approaches religious beliefs more from your point of view than mine. (Please understand, it is only after gaining some insights into the how's and why's of the development of the human "mind" that I make the statements that I do. I am interested in the bio-chemo-electro development of the mind (faith beliefs) whereas most folks are only interested in the philosophical/cultural development.)

http://www.geocities.com/stonehavenc...icbeliefs.html

(I think that you may find this page to be particularly interesting from the cultural standpoint.)

http://www.geocities.com/stonehavenc...cbeliefs2.html

(This is the page which helps to better explain my position and interests. However, please note that the cited experts are not basic biology researchers.)

http://www.geocities.com/stonehavenc...cbeliefs3.html

I hope this better explains why I posted what I did about your comments.

Namaste

08-09-2004, 08:25 AM	#99
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	to heathen dawn's "orchestra" qy Chamber musicians play splendidly Beethoven quartets and nobody is 'conducting". ( Having a beat helps. Or they agree together beforehand about tempo.) And what about jazz combos doing what jazz musicians do: 'extemporizing" is the word I can recall at midday; ( what do they call it?) Hey! so Old Bach WAS God! shuwer! :notworthy

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08-09-2004, 08:07 AM	#98
Kassiana Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: USA Posts: 5,046	I do not agree with your contention that fear of the unknown and death are "unfair, unhealthy" generalizations. --I'm not afraid of the unknown or of death, nor do I think that if someone is, that must be the motivation for their religious beliefs. The generalization that the fear of the unknown and death causes religious belief is unfair and unhealthy; similarly, categorizing me with those people is unfair to me simply because I have religious beliefs. I had thought the above was obvious. I hope it is now clear to you.

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