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Old 01-09-2003, 08:52 AM   #21
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I wonder if you could start a new thread describing what of value you find in Jesus' teaching, how you feather out Jesus' teaching from the legendary and theological accretion in the NT and how you think Jesus' teaching differs considerably from Paul's. I also recommend that you read, "St. Peter vs. St. Paul: A Tale of Two Missions." by Michael Goulder for an excellent discussion of the triumph of Paul's program over that of Jesus' original followers in the Jerusalem congregation.
CX,

It is my view that the original followers of John the prophet (there was no Jesus} were driven out of Jerusalem (Acts 8) and escaped to Rome. This was in 49 CE. After "all were scattered" (verse 1), "[Philip] {James} went down to [a city] {Caesarea} in Samaria and proclaimed the [Christ] {Spirit}" (verse 5). This was en-route to Rome. The flight of 5000 to [Jericho and Damascus] in Recognitions (1.61) was a flight to {Caesarea and Rome}. The main mission was then launched from Rome by the original followers of John the prophet.

In CE 49, Paul (the young Josephus) was 12 years old and could not have been responsible for the persecution of the believers, the prophet's disciples. The guy responsible was a well-known hell-raiser, Ananus the son of the high priest Annas (Ananias) who had an even worse reputation for violence than his son (Ant.20.9.1 and 2). The Annas family were the Mafiosa of Jerusalem with Annas the Godfather.

My point is that ALL OF THE ORIGINAL NT DOCUMENTS WERE COMPATIBLE. There WAS NO fundamental difference between the Gospel's and Paul's epistles. Differences were incorporated later. The reason is that Paul (Josephus) learned his doctrine from James (Barnabas). The epistle of James has been heavily edited to hide their agreement. They were missionaries together, the master with his pupil.

It was not on the road to [Damascus] that Paul (Josephus) was converted to the Spirit, but on the road to {Rome}, and that at the age of 16.

Geoff
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Old 01-10-2003, 03:15 PM   #22
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CX,

It is my view...
Hmmm...that is a fascinating story, but I was hoping for a more substantial and properly sourced reply. Have you references for all this?
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Old 01-11-2003, 02:36 AM   #23
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Hmmm...that is a fascinating story, but I was hoping for a more substantial and properly sourced reply. Have you references for all this?
CX,

I am not sure what you mean by a properly sourced reply. If others have not said the same before, then I cannot quote them.

If you suspect, as I do, that there were original Jewish NT documents, and that the opportunity was taken to edit them (change the story and the theology), then a substantial reply requires a considerable reconstruction to bring the various bits and pieces together. At the moment, I am working on the bits and pieces.

I think I have said sufficient on this site to indicate the route I am taking. A problem is the vast number of different topics that are started. Many of them duplicate or have overlapping subject matter. This does not make for building good cases in a controlled fashion.

Geoff
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Old 01-13-2003, 10:10 AM   #24
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CX,

I am not sure what you mean by a properly sourced reply. If others have not said the same before, then I cannot quote them.
References, my good man, I'm asking for references. If your ideas are your own, you must still provide primary source references along with reasoned argumentation to explain why your position is valid. Otherwise, you're just spinning yarns. Also, unless you are a recognized scholar with published peer-reviewed work (and you very well may be for all I know), as a dilletante (like myself) you are at much greater disadvantage and must work twice as hard to prove your case.
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