Freethought & Rationalism Archive

babelfish · 07-12-2002, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grumpy:


To put it another way, since one integral feature of natural ecosystems, death, is ostensibly the result of Adam's disobedience, Adam is therefore the co-creator of the world we see today. Yet the world today, corrupted by The Fall, is supposed to be an example of God's perfect creation.

A conundrum, to be sure -- unless God intended for today's world to come about, and relied on Adam's disobedience to do it. But then it wouldn't really be disobedience, so....

Exactly. Maybe a Christian would say that we humans are just too mentally feeble to envision an earthly paradise, but that God could easily create a world without all this suffering and decomposition, due to his all-powerfulness. To which I would have to ask, "well then, why didn't he?"

babelfish · 07-12-2002, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Red Expendable:


The christian god is all knowing, so after creating adam and eve, god 'knew' they were going to 'sin'. So doesn't that meant they were set up to fail?

And so based on THAT - doesn't that mean that the christian god created sin - or the ability for human beings to sin, did it intentionally.

So that being the case, the christian god is not only the dealer, but is playing with a marked deck. The other players (human beings) are then nothing more than amusing entities to toy with. Win some here, lose some there.

GOD, how could you?!!!!! You knew what was to happen to us poor poor meek humans and went ahead with the plan anyway!!!! I simply can't BELIEVE it!!!!!

RedEx

[ July 11, 2002: Message edited by: Red Expendable ]

That's right, I simply can't believe it myself!

It has something to do with giving us "free will" I believe. So maybe God, being omnipotent, was able to give us TRUE free will by magically blindfolding that part of his omniscience which would have told him what his favorite creatures would do after he had created them. So now is he (1) kicking himself, or (2) patting himself on the back and having the time of his life watching us fumble around in this world we helped ruin?

I would have to say (2), based on how long Christians have been waiting for him to come back down and fix everything and reward them with life everlasting in the paradise he had planned on giving us in the first place. I can just picture him up there mulling it over, "hmmm, should I rapture them all up this year? Naw, I want to see how this whole Middle East thing pans out first. Maybe next year....or next millenium.

[ July 12, 2002: Message edited by: babelfish ]

Jimmy Higgins · 07-12-2002, 09:20 AM

Too bad the Adam and Eve story was about farming and taxes. I hate it when a story loses its original meaning.

Ironically, there is a Babylonian myth where a character chooses not to eat of the fruit which would have given us all eternal life. He didn't open his big piehole and Adam shouldn't have. Ever think these stories are fixed?

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ · 07-12-2002, 09:26 PM

If man hadn't sinned, we'd be fucking bored out of our minds by now. No sex for fun? No mass murders to entertain us? JESUS! There wouldn't be much of a bible to read either--like two pages! No good literature at all would come forth. Good thing we sinned, eh?

babelfish · 07-13-2002, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jesus Christ:
If man hadn't sinned, we'd be fucking bored out of our minds by now. No sex for fun? No mass murders to entertain us? JESUS! There wouldn't be much of a bible to read either--like two pages! No good literature at all would come forth. Good thing we sinned, eh?

Yep, even though everyone would love to live a problem-free existence, where would we all be without all those problems to solve? My guess is we'd be creating problems before long...

Marduk · 07-13-2002, 05:55 AM

"Ironically, there is a Babylonian myth where a character chooses not to eat of the fruit which would have given us all eternal life. He didn't open his big piehole and Adam shouldn't have. Ever think these stories are fixed? "

Oddly the moral of the story is still the same, Adam missed out on eternal life by listening to the wrong god, the snake in the Bible and the prankster Enki in the Babylonian myth. BTW Enki was the god of wisdom, the snake god, get the connection?

Marduk · 07-13-2002, 06:17 AM

see my post here:
<a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=001075" target="_blank">http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=001075</a>

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07-12-2002, 09:20 AM	#13
Jimmy Higgins Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Proud Citizen of Freedonia Posts: 42,473	Too bad the Adam and Eve story was about farming and taxes. I hate it when a story loses its original meaning. Ironically, there is a Babylonian myth where a character chooses not to eat of the fruit which would have given us all eternal life. He didn't open his big piehole and Adam shouldn't have. Ever think these stories are fixed?

07-12-2002, 09:26 PM	#14
Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Heaven Posts: 6,980	If man hadn't sinned, we'd be fucking bored out of our minds by now. No sex for fun? No mass murders to entertain us? JESUS! There wouldn't be much of a bible to read either--like two pages! No good literature at all would come forth. Good thing we sinned, eh?

07-13-2002, 05:55 AM	#16
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	"Ironically, there is a Babylonian myth where a character chooses not to eat of the fruit which would have given us all eternal life. He didn't open his big piehole and Adam shouldn't have. Ever think these stories are fixed? " Oddly the moral of the story is still the same, Adam missed out on eternal life by listening to the wrong god, the snake in the Bible and the prankster Enki in the Babylonian myth. BTW Enki was the god of wisdom, the snake god, get the connection?

07-13-2002, 06:17 AM	#17
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	see my post here: <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=001075" target="_blank">http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=001075</a>

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