Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sakpo · 05-11-2003, 11:37 AM

Trebax,

The response is really quite simple. Pretending to be a humble man was a part of the image he presented. He would make sure everyone praised him as the greatest guy ever, and then he'd come out and play the humble man.
It doesn't change the fact that Stalin silenced any opposition to him and that the state controlled media, entirely under his control, praised him non stop. It is also worth noting that you have selected quotes from before or early in WW2. Stalin's Cult of The Personality really took off more strongly midway through and after WW2. (Stalin made great propaganda use of "The Great Patriotic War").

Look at this 1951 poster. Note how Stalin is front row, center, and is elevated above the adoring throngs. Just look at the thing, it's Stalin as prophet, leading the great Soviet people! Under The Leadership Of The Great Stalin indeed.

Of course Stalin played the role of modest leader, because we see that as a positive attribute a great leader should have, and he knew that. As a sidenote, I don't see the relevance of the first quote at all. So what, he came across as a good guy in person...how does that conflict with the idea he had a cult of personality? One would expect such a leader to seem very good, wouldn't they?

Chuck · 05-11-2003, 12:03 PM

For me, Stalin really defined cults of personality. If he didn't have one, who did/does? Did Kim Il Sung have one? What about Kim Jong Il today?

Sakpo's poster reads "Under Great Stalin's Leadership - Ahead with Communism!" It's very interesting. It looks as though it was intended for use in Central Asia.

Soviet artistic output and social realism cemented Stalin's personality cult for me. Shostakovich's Lady Macbeth of Mtensk District decried as formalist after two years of success, because Stalin didn't like it. Prokofiev's "Ode to Stalin" and the October Cantata. Not to mention enormous output of second-rate composers praising Stalin. Why didn't Kruschev or Brezhnev have similar artistic sycophants?

Chuck

Sakpo · 05-11-2003, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Fristians

Why didn't Kruschev or Brezhnev have similar artistic sycophants?

What a stupid question! Obviously it's because they weren't nearly as great. Krushchev was a simple minded, messy counter-revolutionary-Ukranian peasant and Brezhnev was boring. Not like Our Father, Stalin, who art in commune!

Evangelion · 05-11-2003, 01:41 PM

He's started three different threads extolling the virtues of Stalin.

But no, he's not really a troll...

Chuck · 05-11-2003, 03:13 PM

Quote:

What a stupid question! Obviously it's because they weren't nearly as great. Krushchev was a simple minded, messy counter-revolutionary-Ukranian peasant and Brezhnev was boring. Not like Our Father, Stalin, who art in commune!

Did you write for Pravda in a previous life?

:notworthy

John Hancock · 05-11-2003, 03:14 PM

Can't say this Stalin Bru Ha Ha is of any interest to me but Sakpo's poster with a different slogan and George W. Bush's face makes a nice desktop.

Martin

Loren Pechtel · 05-11-2003, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jat
Originally posted by Loren Pechtel

We didn't ally with the Taliban--they didn't exist then.

We allied with the resistance fighters. After the war was over one group of them decided they didn't like not being in charge and became the Taliban and took over the country.

Yes, they were the Taliban, if not in name but the same people, and they were also helped into power by the CIA. The CIA lead agent of the time there even admitted to it.

As I said, once the war was one some of the resistance fighters decided to take over the country. That group became the Taliban.

Totalitarianist · 05-11-2003, 06:39 PM

What do you people have against the Great Leader and Teacher personally?

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ · 05-11-2003, 06:47 PM

Why do you hate Jesus?

That's a loaded question and a complete misdirection of the facts. I have NOTHING against Stalin personally or period. He was, however, a brutal bastard--this is a statement of fact. It would be like saying, "Richard Nixon was a crook" and then being accused of having something against him personally. He was a crook, out and out truth. Stalin was a brutal man, out and out truth.

Monkeybot · 05-11-2003, 07:27 PM

LMAO. Totalitarianist, your sense of irony is delicious.

Quote:

From the OP: He did NOT create a cult of personality.

Quote:

A couple of minutes ago: What do you people have against the Great Leader and Teacher personally?

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05-11-2003, 11:37 AM	#11
Sakpo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Pacific Northwest (illegally occupied indigenous l Posts: 7,716	Trebax, The response is really quite simple. Pretending to be a humble man was a part of the image he presented. He would make sure everyone praised him as the greatest guy ever, and then he'd come out and play the humble man. It doesn't change the fact that Stalin silenced any opposition to him and that the state controlled media, entirely under his control, praised him non stop. It is also worth noting that you have selected quotes from before or early in WW2. Stalin's Cult of The Personality really took off more strongly midway through and after WW2. (Stalin made great propaganda use of "The Great Patriotic War"). Look at this 1951 poster. Note how Stalin is front row, center, and is elevated above the adoring throngs. Just look at the thing, it's Stalin as prophet, leading the great Soviet people! Under The Leadership Of The Great Stalin indeed. Of course Stalin played the role of modest leader, because we see that as a positive attribute a great leader should have, and he knew that. As a sidenote, I don't see the relevance of the first quote at all. So what, he came across as a good guy in person...how does that conflict with the idea he had a cult of personality? One would expect such a leader to seem very good, wouldn't they?

05-11-2003, 12:03 PM	#12
Chuck Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: gone Posts: 3,953	For me, Stalin really defined cults of personality. If he didn't have one, who did/does? Did Kim Il Sung have one? What about Kim Jong Il today? Sakpo's poster reads "Under Great Stalin's Leadership - Ahead with Communism!" It's very interesting. It looks as though it was intended for use in Central Asia. Soviet artistic output and social realism cemented Stalin's personality cult for me. Shostakovich's Lady Macbeth of Mtensk District decried as formalist after two years of success, because Stalin didn't like it. Prokofiev's "Ode to Stalin" and the October Cantata. Not to mention enormous output of second-rate composers praising Stalin. Why didn't Kruschev or Brezhnev have similar artistic sycophants? Chuck

05-11-2003, 01:41 PM	#14
Evangelion Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Walsall, UK Posts: 1,490	He's started three different threads extolling the virtues of Stalin. But no, he's not really a troll...

05-11-2003, 03:14 PM	#16
John Hancock Banned Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mars Posts: 2,231	Can't say this Stalin Bru Ha Ha is of any interest to me but Sakpo's poster with a different slogan and George W. Bush's face makes a nice desktop. Martin

05-11-2003, 06:39 PM	#18
Totalitarianist Banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 1,234	What do you people have against the Great Leader and Teacher personally?

05-11-2003, 06:47 PM	#19
Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Heaven Posts: 6,980	Why do you hate Jesus? That's a loaded question and a complete misdirection of the facts. I have NOTHING against Stalin personally or period. He was, however, a brutal bastard--this is a statement of fact. It would be like saying, "Richard Nixon was a crook" and then being accused of having something against him personally. He was a crook, out and out truth. Stalin was a brutal man, out and out truth.

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