Arken

Hmm... I admit my information may be out of date, but I remember reading an article talking about the uniqueness of their bone structure and that the RH- blood type originated from them and only spread to the rest of the world when they began coexisting with other Europeans. I'll see if I can find the article.

CX

So then what the hell does "species" mean? One thing I hate about biology is how "squidgy" all the terminology is.

Rhaedas

It's more accurate than "kind" though.

It seems that with a few domesticated animals and humans as well, we are much more vague, perhaps through tradition, than with other creatures. Technically all dogs are within the same grouping, yet we have different "breeds", much like we have different "races" of man.

It's all in how you draw the dividing line, since really each individual animal is different from any other, if you compare DNA exactly.

Rational BAC

Admit am a little rusty on biology, but I thought the main difference between species was an inability to procreate.

My best guess is that of a previous poster. Neanderthals and humans did "do the thing"---------any port in a storm as they say.

And the reason that there is no Neanderthal DNA in modern humans is that the offspring if there were any were infertile.

Arken

But what about the supposed human/neanderthal hybrid found in Portugal? According to this article, the hybrid dates from 4000 years after Neanderthals had died out, suggesting that the interbred people were fertile.

Rhaedas

That would be good reasoning...

Another possibility could be as mentioned in this post where many Neanderthal features are suppressed due to maybe Sapiens having more dominant genes.

Also, somewhere else was mentioned the possibility of human-chimp compatability, given we are so close. If this is at all possible (although ethically it's a bit touchy) then anything closer, such as the Neanderthals, should be more so compatible. Maybe we didn't kill them off, maybe we breeded them into us, and so they as a separate "species" disappeared.

As a disclaimer I know only the basics of this stuff.

Nic Tamzek

Blame evolution. Species are maleable and gradually diverge from other species. Therefore no matter how precise the terminology is, there will be grey areas and in-between cases.

A good overview of species definitions is here:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

It's much tougher when all you've got left is fossils, although I think no matter how you cut it neanderthals are statistically distinct, and outside the range of variation of modern humans in a morphological sense.

The hominids FAQ will probably also have info:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/

MortalWombat

Now we're getting a bit more complicated. Dogs are now recognized as being the same species as wolves, having been domesticated from them, and are now given the name Canis lupus familiaris, as a subspecies of wolf Canis lupus. However, coyotes (Canis latrans) and other species of the genus Canis, which are considered to be a seperate species from wolves, can also interbreed with dogs and produce fertile offspring. The ability to interbreed and produce fertile offspring, which is the old Ernst Mayr definition from early in the 20th century, doesn't take into account for instance simple organisms that reproduce by fission, like bacteria and amoebas, and is not now considered to be the defining factor.

The issue of what constitutes a species is a sticky one, particularly now with the advent of molecular genetics. To illustrate the problem of defining what a biological species is, see A Taxonomy of Species Definitions - Or, Porphyry's Metatree.

RufusAtticus

The Basque people predate the Indo-European invasion. Unlike the rest of Europe they retained their genetic and linguistic identity. The other pre-Indo-European peoples either died out or assimilated into Indo-European populations. The Welsh are also descendents of pre-IE peoples. They have a unique Y-chromosome that is closest to the Basque unique Y-chromosome. Of course the Welsh adopted a Celtic language at some point in their history.

To think that the Basque are remnants of Neandertals is pure science fiction. It sounds romantic, but there is nothing to it.

Arken

Oh, I wasn't suggesting that they were Neanderthals. I was suggesting that from what I have read, they are substantially different genetically from the rest of humanity and because of that, should they be classified as a separate species of Homo Sapien?