Proxima Centauri

Bin Laden authorized the horror of September 11th 2001 to punish the infidel Americans. What did he actually achieve? Before those outrages, President Bush looked set to put the United States on a course of isolation. After September 11 2001 United States military expenditure was increased and President Bush set his country on a course of heavy interventionism.
War with Afghanistan became politically acceptable. War with Iraq became politically acceptable. We don't yet know what will happen in Syria, Iran, etc, etc, etc. The United States is exercising much more military power in Moslem countries now.
If September 11th 2001 had not happened Islamic countries would not have been weakened in this way.

Beer God

Many look at the problem of terrorism these days in terms of nations; America fights terrorism, Iraq is/was a terrorist nation, and so on. However looking at the problem in that way is no longer relevant.

This is cultural terrorism that the US, and the wider world faces, not state terrorism. And if you look at the problem in that context you will see that the rift between the Arab/Muslim cultures (whatever term you want to use) and Western society, that these divisions have never been so great. For example if free and fair elections were held tomorrow in Pakistan, we would have an OSB like figure running that country, which has a nuclear arsenal (you can see why the US supported Musharf when he got rid of democracy).

But just looking at the US, did it change after 9/11, it certainly did, and sadly it was not for the better. The US is now a less free place than it was before 9/11, where jingoism and suspicion is rife. That is exactly what Bin Laden and his supporters want.

HaysooChreesto!

B. Shack, I was just thinking about this earlier today. For the most part, I think you're right. Were Islamic and Arab causes advanced by the 9/11 attack? It's hard to see how. Are Islam and it's Arab supporters under much closer scrutiny now? Obviously and they're going to remain so far into the future.
The 9/11 attack marked the beginning of the end for the looking of the other way by the U.S.

Evangelion

Actually, it marked the point at which America finally joined the real world.

And hell, it certainly took you long enough.

Optional

Oh bullshit, bin Ladin and his cohorts are wetting their pants laughing about their good fortune.

So they lost a base/haven in Afghanistan? Well, first of all, the way we're handling that makes it look like it's only gonna be a very temporary loss. But second of all, the way we handled Afghanistan and Iraq pretty much guarantees a multitude of new hidey holes for them, from people who otherwise would never have supported terrorism but now see it as the only group in the arab world that has actually managed to bloody the americans in recent years, the americans that SEEM hell-bent on conquering the arab world....

I know that we (probably) will stop with Iraq, as do you, but again, we have created a PERCEPTION that is profoundly damaging to us.

And as for Iraq, bin Ladin and his ilk have been trying to break the Ba'athist grip on Iraq for many years now. We've done that for them. And we've given them the opportunity to practice their sole reason for existing, by possiblymaybe gaining islamic fundamentalist control of the government of Iraq. If we do it right, they'll fail at that, but we've given them a shot.

In thinking about this, you've got to realize and remember that 'the arab world' and 'the islamic fundamentalist world' are NOT one and the same. The first consists of countries and peoples. The second consists of shadowy organizations, money, and ideology. We are able to wield our military to hurt the first, but not the second; and only the second, not the first, is able to hurt US. And every time we use our might to hurt the first, the second is strengthened thereby.

-me

Mark

9/11 was not launched by Bin Laden as some kind of strike mimicking Pearl Harbour; it was not to try and destroy America by full-scale assault. Bin Laden may be a nutcase, but he's not stupid. He knows the best way to bring down the US is to destroy what it cherishes most: its freedom.

And 9/11 brought world focus on Islamic fundementalism and Al-Quaeda. The US's brutal reactions in Afghanistan and Iraq (and god knows who else they'll pick on) will recruit more to Al-Qaieda than anything Bin Laden could have dreamt of.

HaysooChreesto!

So terrorist organizations have gotten stronger now that they've lost an entire country and it's funding and has lost a possible ally and funding from another country? At this rate, terrorists should lose everything in just a few years. Think of how powerful they'll be then...
Islamic Fundamentalists come from the Arab world. They are supported by Arab governments and Arab populations. They are closely intertwined.

HaysooChreesto!

Oh yeah. The US was just spaced out, not knowing anything, living in a dream land, driving around in our gold plated cars, and thinking our bubbleheaded thoughts. That's how the US became a superpower after all.
Too bad we weren't out chasing kangaroos and drinking Foster's like all those in the "real world" were doing before 9/11. Imagine.

DeLurking

Terrorist don�t need funds and a strong organization, just a)Fanatics or b) Desperate and very angry people that think they have nothing to lose. If the islamic or arab world they see or believe seeing EEUU trying to enslave them terrorist attacks will rise inevitably as the only way to attack USA.

Unless you stripe them of all funds so they can�t buy boxcutters, of course.

Mark

Correction. They originate from there, but embed themselves in different countries, actings as local terrorist cells. They learn to function with using as few resources as they can. They set up money-making agencies in these countries which can dissolve and move on when threatened.