Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Mageth · 08-14-2003, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by Magus55
Humans are responsible for their own actions.

Unless they ask Jesus to be responsible. Hell, even McVeigh or Hitler could escape responsibility that way.

Pyrrho · 08-14-2003, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
God didn't blow up the OK federal building, a terrorist did. Tim McVeigh chose to use his free will, to go against God's command of thou shalt not murder. He made the choice, why should God stop him?

If god were good, god would stop him. Just as you would stop him if you could (and if you were good).

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55

It isn't God's job to run around to every tragedy and stop the crimes committed by humans.

God (supposedly) made this mess called earth, so it is his responsibility to make sure it functions properly. Furthermore, god would not have to "run around" to take care of things; for an omnipotent being, it would be effortless.

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55

God is not a magic genie, so stop acting like we can do whatever we want, and expect God to make it all better with no consequences. It doesn't work that way. Yes, the OK building disaster was tragic, but Tim McVeigh did it, not God.

And no God isn't responsible for the evil we commit, because while He does allow it to happen, He doesn't force us to commit evil. We choose to commit evil. We have the complete ability to not do evil. So whose fault is it if we choose evil over good?

God's. He made us what we are, and we act as we do because of what we are.

Pyrrho · 08-14-2003, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
That may apply to humans, it doesn't apply to God. What do you, as a human, have to preserve in a situation that would prevent you from helping out with something? Probably nothing. God on the other hand, wants to preserve our freedom of choice. Why do you seem to think God has to follow your laws? You are NOT ABOVE God, so stop acting like you make the rules. If God doesn't want to help in a situation, He, by absolutely no authority but His own, isn't required to do so, and no that doesn't make Him evil, it makes Him sovereign. You can't keep bringing God to your level, and expect Him to fit into the box you designed for Him. God is above and beyond any ideal or standard you can ever imagine.

First of all, god stopping people from killing each other would not eliminate "free choice", it would only remove some of the possible choices (or, to be more precise, one could never succeed if one chose certain things, though one could still choose to try). Second, god created all of the diseases that exist, all of the birth defects, etc. Our "freedom of choice" is completely irrelevant to much evil in the world, created by god (that is, if there really were a god who created the world).

Pyrrho · 08-14-2003, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Again, it may apply to you, but it doesn't to God. For God to stop all evil in the world, the ability to obey and disobey disappears, and God doesn't want that.

You mean because god likes evil? That makes some sense, given that he created evil.

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Humans are responsible for their own actions.

Humans do what they do because of what they are. God is responsible for not doing anything to prevent evil from happening.

And God is still responsible for the creation of evil, but you seem to wish to simply ignore the Bible in your effort to support your particular brand of superstition.

Sci_Fidelity · 08-14-2003, 04:02 PM

Well Magus has a nasty habit of abandoning threads when they get uncomfortable so I'm not going to even bother asking the several questions I have about this thread......

Evolutionist · 08-14-2003, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Well Magus has a nasty habit of abandoning threads when they get uncomfortable so I'm not going to even bother asking the several questions I have about this thread......

well, although i agree with you on the subject of magus, you may as well sumarise them anyways, i'd like to hear them, even if no one else would.

Milton · 08-14-2003, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Heathen Dawn
I thought the aspiration of man to become God was the original sin.

(you know, Gen 3:5) [/B]

Yes, and no. The aspiration to be EQUAL to God was sin, the idea that I am a God is not.

mark9950 · 08-15-2003, 01:57 AM

and should have divinely inspired a kook to call a bomb threat before the explosions occured.

But wait,I guess that is beyond Gods power.

Why did God let them do those things anyway?No power to stop anything?

Jesus is a gay myth and john was his BELOVED..

Secular Pinoy · 08-15-2003, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Heathen Dawn
And before anyone says the word for "evil" actually means "calamity": this is not so. The word in that verse is ra'

רע

which means "evil" or "bad", not "calamity".

Hah, that could've easily been forged by Oded Golan. The second letter shows signs of a "second hand," and there is a patina forming on my monitor screen as I type [Maybe if you clean it more, my hygienically challenged friend - Ed.]

BTW, who else thinks the RSV/NRSV translation of Isaiah 45:7 sucks. I make weal and create woe is worse than the KJV, and weal is an obscure word. I might understand the RSV using it since it's a mid-20th century translation, but the NRSV is 1989. Jeez!

winstonjen · 08-15-2003, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
I have a solid grip on reality thanks

THE BIBLE IS NOT REALITY

Quote:

nor does 5+ billion of the rest of the population, but then again, since atheists think they are superior to all other humans on Earth, i'm not surprised.

No, not everyone else, just you.

08-15-2003, 01:57 AM	#38
mark9950 Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: midwest usa Posts: 1,203	God could have and should have divinely inspired a kook to call a bomb threat before the explosions occured. But wait,I guess that is beyond Gods power. Why did God let them do those things anyway?No power to stop anything? Jesus is a gay myth and john was his BELOVED..

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08-14-2003, 02:58 PM	#31
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Originally posted by Magus55 Humans are responsible for their own actions. Unless they ask Jesus to be responsible. Hell, even McVeigh or Hitler could escape responsibility that way.

08-14-2003, 04:02 PM	#35
Sci_Fidelity Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 595	Well Magus has a nasty habit of abandoning threads when they get uncomfortable so I'm not going to even bother asking the several questions I have about this thread......

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