Amlodhi

Have you never heard of the Socratic method?

Evoken

Yes, but I fail to see the relevance of your questions.

Amlodhi

Very well, let me elaborate. If you are familiar with the Socratic method, then you know that it is the answers to specific exemplars that provide insight into the answer to a more philosophical question.

The OP question was: "Do people believe because of an unselfish desire to worship God, or because of a desire to avoid hell".

The philosophical framing of this question tends to evoke a rhetorical and philosophical answer. Usually one that casts the answerer in the best possible light; i.e. the answer that sounds good.

The specific exemplars, on the other hand, require a much more specific and less philosophically self-serving answer. One either thinks that worshippers would pretty much still worship without the "carrot & stick" persuasion; or that they wouldn't. And the answer to this question provides the answer to the OP question.

Thus, you are no longer provided the latitude to "talk around the answer" or to "spin it in the best possible light". You must choose and defend a specific claim.


I hope this will clarify things for you,

Amlodhi

Daunt

I was thinking about this one time before.

What if a person started out being so afraid of dieing in hell and all of their family was telling them how terrible hell will be and how loving God is even though the person they are talking to don't know diddily squat about God. After a while hearing the word love and dieing in hell they probably will end up believing in it. So what if they started believing because they were trying to avoid social pressure and hell but then later after many a day of concetrated meditation they end up psyching themselves into "loving" God.

I'd call that a psychopathic episode rather than true love... and oh have I seen people go through this.

Amlodhi

Hi Daunt,

I basically agree (though not with the term "psychopathic"). An analogous psychological phenomenon manifests itself in the "Stockholm syndrome". It is also incorporated within George Orwell's novel "1984".

Amlodhi

jmem

I agree. The first thing I thought of when I saw the title of this thread was Stockholm syndrome. People do fear hell, but they also love god and are grateful for the things he doesn't do to them, while not holding him responsible for the the horrible things that he does allow to happen to them. It also reminds me of a child's love for an abusive parent.

Amlodhi

Hmmm . . that is interesting. Especially since studies have shown that the child exhibits more overt affection for the abusive parent than for the non-abusive one.

Thanks for the interesting insight jmem,

Amlodhi

Newton Joseph

WHY DID YOU TELL ME?


Years ago, a Christian missionary went out to convert the Inuit indians in the remote reaches of present day northern Canada. This missionary met a wise old fisherman and told him the story of Jesus. He explained to the old Inuit that his soul could only be saved by accepting Christ as his personal savior. The old Inuit pondered this for a moment and asked the missionary "My ancestors never heard of Jesus and did not know they needed to accept Him in order to be saved. Does this mean they went to this place you call Hell?" The missionary replied, "No, God does not condemn those who are ignorant to His teachings." The old Inuit then asked, "Would I have gone to hell if I had not met you and been taught about Jesus?" The missionary told him he would not have gone to Hell either. "Then," the old Inuit asked, "Why did you tell me?"
:devil1:
[email protected]

Magus55

I did it because of God and was at a very low point in my life. Hell was the last thing on my mind ( when I confessed to God, I didn't even really believe in Hell because I still maintained more Jewish beliefs, without the incorporation of Christianity.

As to the second question, I don't think its necessarily not sincere. The worst part of Hell to most Christians is being without God, so by virtue of wanting to escape it, you want to be with God. And God emphasized avoiding hell a lot in the Bible, so i'm sure he wants us to try and escape it.

Magus55

Oh and of course you have the real answer because you've polled the entire world to ask why Christians are Christian?