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For those who have been/are in a r/ship with a religious person, have you ever felt that God comes first? Is it right for the believer to place God above their partner?

I sometimes get this impression from my girlfriend, and obviously, I've no wish to sound like I'd want somebody to make a choice.

She's coming out with stuff like " I have a relationship with God " and " God is my centre and teaches me to love you better " and it's a bit disconcerting to think somebody would place God above a real, living person in the present.

I know there's been a number of people who have deconverted in this forum, so what's your take on this? Did you honestly believe God should come before others?

I think I'm starting to understand why atheist-theist relationships often don't work out, despite my idealistic notions at the beginning

I ate Pascal's Wafer

Ugh, I get this a lot too. My g/f has always been a theist, but she didn't really get serious about her faith until a few months after I deconverted. Now she places God (and even her church) above me. It's a long distance relationship, so I only get to see her every several weeks. Before recently she would keep that time available so that we could spend time with each other. However, more and more she is opting to spend time with her church group or do something or other which "pleases God"--leaving me with nothing to do for a weekend. It's difficult to deal with, and I can tell that this is going to be a new issue in our relationship really soon (either I visit and I get pissed because she does something else, or I don't visit and she gets pissed because I never come to visit anymore), but for now that's what happening. I feel for you.

As far as whether or not it is right to place a magical sky-fairy above a real person, I can't really answer that. If both parties are fine with it, then there is no problem. However, I do think that the issue should be talked about. If you can't deal with being second-place behind an invisible friend, then she should be mature enough to realize that you two need to go your separate ways. It is wrong to put an invisible friend above your partner if the partner is not comfortable with it.

Just my $0.02. Atheist/Theist relationships can work out, but an agreement should be made on these issues and both need to be willing to make compromises.

-Nick

Viti

Most religions teach that God comes first in all things. I went to a liberal church and we were still told that regularly. It is part of their dogma.

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I Ate Pascal's Wafer :

Have you suggested doing activities together over the weekend? Unless you mention it, she may be under the impression it's fine for her to go off and leave you sitting around for hours.

My girlfriend going to Mass once a week is perfectly fine; but there are other groups she's involved in. Like you, this is a long distance thing and I'm spending two months over in Portugal soon. I guess this will help me make up my mind on the issue once and for all.

To be fair, she's said she'll give her prayer group a miss as it's not that important - maybe once or twice. I've just got these visions of being left sitting around every Sunday whilst she goes off doing religious stuff.

I ask myself if I'd feel the same if she was doing anything else? And the answer is yes. If we lived together I'd be far more accomodating; but in an LDR I believe you should value the time you have together and place day to day things to one side as much as is reasonably possible when the other person visits.

Two months is some time to be together, so I know she should go to her group now and then because both of us will need a few hours apart.

I'm fine with her activities. It'd be boring to be together every minute of the day; what I'm not fine with is this " relationship " with God coming first.

She explained it to me as something along the lines of God is love, and he's showing her how to love others and relate to the world. God is her foundation and guides her (I'd like to claim I'm making this up, but it's what she thinks ...). These things aren't so bad, after all, we all have our morals and principles that guide us in our dealings with others.

I'd hate to end it, since she's wonderful and I do love her a great deal; but ultimately it's a question of priorities and whether or not someone can value me as much as I value them. I know I'd place my partner first if I was committed to them, and they would be the first person I'd turn to in most things - it's not unreasonable to expect the same in return, is it?

One can only give in proportion to what one is receiving.

I've sent her a message saying something similar to this, and now I'll wait and see what she says. I probably should be tactful, but it's best to get straight answers then let something go on you wouldn't be comfortable with and have it be more painful in the long term.

I ate Pascal's Wafer

Unfortunately, yes. I'll bring up some ideas, and she quickly lets me know that some of those ideas conflict with something she already had planned with the group. Mind you, these are weekly things--it's not a one-time thing. She's open to ideas about what we can do together, but she only passed up her church functions for time with me once. Every other time we've had to work around her schedule.

Yeah, that's exactly how I feel too. It would be different if I was able to visit more often. I wouldn't expect her to give up her church functions if I came down every weekend. However, if I only come down once every month or so, then I would kind of like for her to skip her functions for just a day or two and spend time with me. I think the time I get to visit could be better spent by spending time with each other and making the most of the time--not by fitting me into a schedule because it's inconvienient to skip something just once.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm not fine with that either, but I'm really trying to understand where she's coming from with this. I don't want this to be an issue in our relationship, but I don't really see how I can come to understand it either. If I don't understand it, then it's likely to become an issue later.

Yeah, I know what you mean. It's hard to love somebody so much and value them above everything else, and then have that person turn around and tell you that you are not first in their life. I really hope things work out for you in your relationship, but I can't offer anything except sympathy here.

I agree. I am really trying to love and understand my g/f, but it's hard when she doesn't return the same amount of love for you.

It sounds like you've got things under control. It's best to discuss this issue as straightforward as you can because you certainly don't want to let this go on. I wish you lots of luck with working something out, and I hope things go well for you and your relationship. Hopefully things will work out for the best.

-Nick

Tia

Hi,

Being in a relationship with a theist I can understand your situation. But as Nick wrote, these thinsg can work out so long as you both discuss what you want, need and expect and try to set up a cosy arrangement taht keeps both of you as is possible given all the constraints on your time and hers.

Trust me..if it ain't an imaginary friend taking first place, its something else for others!! Its important to them..maybe they've always believed in an IF or justrecently...it could be a passing phase or not. Give it time but always explain how you feel when you feel hurt or confused by their prioritisation of their time ratherthan waiting for days or weeks...

If you both agree to do x, y and z on such and such a day andits supposed to be a routine/habit thing...then allowing religion orwork or whatever else to frequently disturb that special time of yours is not fair.

Having faced some of those kind of demons in my relationship, I find that neiother one of has enough time because of our PhDs...and it isn;t any easier to be told that he's too busy working or accept that I have to spend an entire weekend working. It really can be so frustrating...!!!

I still wonder how anyone can put so much faith into soemthing that to me, seems like a mere fabrication!!! But...this boy of mine's so cute and we have such a good time...when we're not having a bad time obviously!!

It can hurt being placed second in line but...the intensity of whats/he feels for you when you are together, the time the make for you, the effort they go to to be with you, do thinsg with you, and be there fo ryou in the end speak louder than where you come in a line..

I hope that makes sense. If they love you...they love you..alogn with IF and other things they loved befroe you came along just as you would have loyalties and attachments before your special girl came along...?

I suppose its a question of trying to balance and it needs to be worked out together. It might take a few tries though...

All the best!

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I Ate Pascal's Wafer:

Does she know it truly bothers you? Has she invited you to a Church function? Although if she knows your views, she probably wouldn't consider it. I don't know, I'm just wondering if she's made the *slightest* concession?

I wonder if you could say " well, if you go to Church in the morning then we'll have the afternoon together " or " Could you consider going on a day I'm not there?" unless of course you've already tried those things.

There's no real reason why she couldn't just go for an hour or so and then spend the rest of her time with you? That way she gets to do both without her feeling like she's being pushed into choosing.

Goodness, I'm probably the last person to be dishing out this kind of advice since I'm trying to figure it out for myself.

Like you, I don't understand it either; but I'm trying very hard to see things through her eyes. For instance, if she asked me to give up an interest of mine I'd be quite incredulous; but if such an interest was *frequently* interfering with our time together, then I'd be flexible and be able to prioritise.

I think it's a matter of *degree.* Going to church for an hour on Sunday's is more than fine with me; but attending every group activity or spending hours praying is not. At least not when we're together.

But maybe I've got it easier than you since my girlfriend has agreed to compromise. It's a start, and I'm trying to see it's an adjustment from what she's used too.

My girlfriend has told me numerous times I'm the most important person in her life, but I can't get my head around her saying that and in the next sentence " God has to be my centre. "

Don't get me wrong, I want to be able to encourage and support her in her faith as much as I'm able to; but it's very difficult to do that if you feel these beliefs are the main thing to her, and you're just there as and when you're needed.

I'm also told that her " relationship " with God is on another level entirely. Have you asked your girlfriend how she views things? Unfortunately, the other level description didn't help me as it makes you wonder how you can measure up to an omnipotent being.

When I sort of brought this issue up a few weeks ago she actually said that a non religious person wouldn't be able to love me as much as she did! Oh, the irony of it ... with a non religious person I wouldn't feel like I was competing with a superhuman non existent entity.

Perhaps you could get your girlfriend to write down a list of her priorities? And if you're not the first one, then there's your answer. Has she ever stated her religious activities are more *important* for instance?

Let's hope we get this worked out. No doubt I'll have a reply to my message in the morning.

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Tia:

Sure, I know she was into all of this stuff before me, and that's not about to change. I think what Pascal's Wafer and I are saying is that we wish our partners would tone it down when we're around.

My girlfriend does this, so in my case it's not her activities that are the issue. The problem is comments that make me suspect my love for her cannot come anywhere near the love she thinks she has from God.

It's important to be feel like you're number one that's all. I don't mind when she's working late, or goes out, or can't always talk with me on line ... we all have other things that require our immediate attention.

What I *do* mind are the implications that this relationship with God should be valued above other human relationships. If I was told that I wasn't second, that she valued me more than anything, then I wouldn't be complaining.

She seems to think God can be everything to her, whereas a real person cannot, because real people fail you.

Do religious people seriously believe this?

Of course there will be times when I don't live up to her expectations; but my love is there. It's just rather disheartening to think that love pales in comparison next to whatever relationship she has with God.

soluble_fish

i guess i'm in some sort of weird category, in that i'm an agnostic christian, and while i was raised fundie -- like my wife -- i broke away from that. i met her and have changed her. she says she's somewhere between her fundie origins and my liberal self.

for us, god doesn't seem to get in the way. my current understanding of god is that it is not some "invisible fairy king" but the sum total of those who are committed to the service of others... those who act out the "greatest commandment" according to jesus... "love god, and love your neighbors before yourself"... st. paul also said that we are the body of christ. so, existentially, we are god.

so to love god is to be committed to the whole of us who are god, and to be committed to each other individually.

so to love my wife is to love god. and i don't love her because of her commitment to others (that she part of god), but i love her for her self alone.

the sufi poet rumi said, "but if I worship you for yourself alone, then grace me forever the splendor of your face". now, he was specifically directing this to allah/god. but if my wife represents "god in my life", then i attempt to love her for no other reason than to love her alone and for no other reason.


well, this only marginally relates to the conversation... but if your b/f or g/f is open-minded, this might do something for the relationship, if it actually makes any sense at all :banghead:

Proxima Centauri

Are you considering marriage with your girlfriend/girlfriends? Women of this type will often fight tooth and nail to get their kids brought up as, 'scared-to-think rationally' fundies. Take care before becoming too committed in these relationships.