Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Devilnaut · 07-27-2002, 04:22 AM

For myself i'll still be around in a week

Just revive the thread when ya return...

Mageth · 07-28-2002, 11:12 AM

Smitty, along 99percent's lines, I'll point you to a post I made on the previous page:

Quote:

The universe as a whole does not require a causal explanation. Causality is only applicable within the universe. Quoting from the website [NOTE: posted on the previous page]:

"To demand a cause for all of existence is to demand a contradiction: if the cause exists, it is part of the existence; if it does not exist, it cannot be a cause. Nothing does not exist. Causality presupposes existence; existence does not presuppose causality. There can be no cause "outside" of existence or "anterior" to it. The forms of existence may change and evolve, but the fact of existence is the irreducible primary at the base of all casual chains. Existence -not "god" - is the First Cause."

Theli · 07-28-2002, 11:28 AM

Devilnaut...

Quote:

How is the universe existing for eternity more logically absurd than there being a point at which nothing, not even time, existed?

I've wondered about this.
How can the universe have existed prior to big bang? In wich form did it exist?

Quote:

Is this creator less "logically absurd" because he is supposed to exist in the realm of the *drum roll* supernatural, where anything goes and there are no laws, so we are free to make up whatever the hell we want? Is that it?

I agree.
You can't call something before the universe and it's natural laws began to exist "supernatural". If there were no natural, then obviously there were no super-natural.

Mageth · 07-28-2002, 11:34 AM

An interesting article on quantum cosmology I found that may add to the discussion:

<a href="http://www.flash.net/~csmith0/bigbang.htm" target="_blank">What happened before the Big Bang?</a>

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07-27-2002, 04:22 AM	#71
Devilnaut Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Posts: 374	For myself i'll still be around in a week Just revive the thread when ya return...

07-28-2002, 11:34 AM	#74
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	An interesting article on quantum cosmology I found that may add to the discussion: <a href="http://www.flash.net/~csmith0/bigbang.htm" target="_blank">What happened before the Big Bang?</a>

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