Kharakov

It comes down to this: you can't know whether you have 'free will' or if the universe is deterministic. Just because there is synchronization between physical phenomena and mental phenomena (Drugs, Talking, Sight, lobotomies, etc.) does not mean they are related.

I don't know why i make decisions. To clear things up: I don't know where my desires come from, why i have them, why they rule all of my actions, and why my actions appear to be caused by my will- even though i cannot control what I will to be, because I do not know why I will something to be. To sum it up- even if you think you chose your own desires, you did not pick your own desires, because in choosing one desire over another, or desiring to desire anything at all indicates that you desired those desires- which means your actions were still determined by desire, and (your actions) are therefore out of your control.

It doesn't matter if the physical universe determines your desire, or the mental universe, or your soul, or god, or whatever. You do not have a choice in what you desire, and your actions will always be determined by the greatest desire you have at the moment (even if it is to save money or go to college for your future- that is your desire for the moment), unless your desires are thwarted by anothers desires, or physical limitations, or other things that thwart and shape our future desires (that we have no control over). Nobody is free from desire. Not one of us is any more than a slave to desire. There is no free will.

excreationist

Well if we can one-day explain mental phenomenon as well as we can explain why things float, etc, then it would seem the only physical processes are involved. On the other hand, maybe little angels make things float and they just tend to follow certain rules... and they might go on strike tomorrow...

crocodile deathroll

That is probably what it all boils down to desire you just merely switch to the physical universe which most fulfills that desire as all matter in each physical universe determines the neural composition of your brain there will only be a switch of conscious attention like in the Rat/Man scenario to the reality that you most desire, the reality where the neural composition or your brain is conducive to you preferring to observe those rather "ratty" images. If you prefer to see it as a rat then you will see it as a rat, but that does not mean the physical universe is guiding you towards the rat. It is nothing but a gestalt switch from one physical neural composition to another.

excreationist

crocodile deathroll:
Did you read what I wrote about that?
Basically having different perceptions of the same thing can be contained within a single brain without interacting with parallel universes.

Kharakov

"preferring to observe"


Are you saying that we can't even control what we observe because our desires control that as well? So we have absolutely no control over anything? (I agree )

This means that you can't really do anything about fundies or christians. In a deterministic universe, people cannot help being the way they are- they might be wrong, but they have no control over it. To bad, ehh?

[ January 07, 2002: Message edited by: Kharakov ]</p>

DRFseven

But only for that moment in time. At any moment, all sensations are taken into account in the formation of an opinion, so new information continuously impacts knowledge. Otherwise, we would never have learned to argue because we never would have been rewarded for it, as any child who knows how to wheedle and grind its parents down into reversing a decision can demonstrate.

crocodile deathroll

Yes I fully agree , this just demonstrates how complex the dynamics are when there a fixed laws and fundamental constants in the universe.

crocodile deathroll

Kharakov

Everything is 'true' in its moment then. The combination of forces (thought, physical, whatever else you come up with) produces a certain outcome (in the mind) at a certain moment. There is no right or wrong thought- there is just a thought for every moment, for every sentient being. Even when the being claims to know beyond a doubt that the thought it is proselytizing is true- it is just a combination of all forces that influence that being that make that being feel that their thought is true.

Even the forces that compel us to lie do not lie to us- we are still bound by the same desires and physical laws.

In every mind there is an absolute balance of power which is the current thought. As this absolute balance shifts because of extremely complex rules, our thoughts shift. The physical universe is bound by this same absolute balance of power as are all other things- that is why there is a synchronicity between it and the mind. You can look at many different aspects of this balance of power (as the balance of power shifts and your attention appears to shift with it) and see synchronicity between the different sides of it.