tronvillain

Not really an "Existence of God" question now is it? Presumably God exists whether we need it or not. Try Miscellaneous Religious Discussions.

Bible Humper

Not a very democratic deity, is he?

Biff the unclean

That is your subjective understanding of what existing consists of. You are assuming that a believer does not aknowledge his existence prior to inhaling the first breath of fresh air out of the womb.
Give me a break Sabine. This isn't a "right to choose" discussion. I'm not talking about when you were a fetus, I'm talking about all the billions of years before you existed. That can hardly be taken as being subjective.
And I'm not talking about "limited brain activity." I'm talking about no brain, no body, no you at all. For billions of years before your life started you did not exist. You can think of that vast time without a qualm.
After your body is gone you are going to be in the same state your were in before it existed. Why should that oblivion bother you now when you've already been through it without a care?

agapeo

True, but doesn't what you believe (or don't believe) help make that life?
Hmm . . . because my belief in God has made my life better. If your lack of belief makes your life better than I'd say we both have a better life. So we should have no problem getting along, right?
Not if I disagree with the laws of the country I live in. Besides, we can merely follow the laws because we fear the consequences. Now I realize the same can be said for the laws (morals) one follows from the tenets of their beliefs. I for one am not necessarily motivated to do something due to fear of consequences but because I believe it's the right thing to do (or not do). For example: one of the morals as presented in the Bible is not to steal. Do I refrain from stealing because I fear the consequences or because I believe it's simply not right to take from another what doesn't belong to you? If the former then what is morally good about me? If I knew for a certainty that if I chose to steal and would suffer no consequences for my actions, what would stop me from stealing? But if my motivation for not stealing was because I felt it wrong to take from you what doesn't belong to me then I'm not thinking about the consequences of stealing but why it's wrong to steal.

Heathen Dawn

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"Vanity of vanities" in the sense of Ecclesiastes, that all is futile.

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I'm not thinking that I alone can survive death; I believe that everyone, all people in the universe, have more than this one chance.

It scares me stiff. I've already talked about it. I need belief to defend me from the frightening concept of oblivion. Not something you'd understand, or many other people at that. A personal problem. My beliefs are personal, and I keep them to myself. I chose Wicca because it's emotionally appealing.

Rusting Car Bumper

That shouldn't be enough for anybody.

Morality and law are not the same. They often shadows of each other but they are not the same.

One can think of many a distasteful, disgusting creature that only obeys laws but doesn't give the next thought about how his/her actions affect others.

DC

[ November 17, 2002: Message edited by: DigitalChicken ]</p>

Sabine Grant

Again Bill you are assuming that you can speak for what I believe. Can we try to have a dialogue where you and I do not dwell on assuming what the other one believes or does not believe?

Let me explain my position when it comes to " the billion of years before I even was".In my spiritual belief, I accept the concept that God intended for me to exist and live even before creation. You will find that concept in most christians. So I do attach importance to the before and after actual birth and death.

Now you can validate your argument with a christian who does not aknowledge God's intent and sovereignty over his existence. But that is not my case.

That was not presented to argue that what I believe is right or wrong, that is simply part of my faith.

hezekiah jones

By extension did your "god," billions of years ago, already intend Jeff Dahmer to kill and chop up 17 people?

atheist_in_foxhole

Of course! It was all a part of His Holy Plan.

GeoTheo

Perhaps calling yourself a Christian in in the Bible belt(Kansas) is an easy thing to do.
But your observation only explains extremely nominal Christians. Most Christians I now come up against a lot of opposition in trying to be a Christian. People who abstain from alcahol and don't engage in pre-marrital sex, or use profanity and attend church three times a week stand out in America. Not that Christianity should be defined as a list of do's and don'ts but trying to live out the Christian faith causes you to move in a different path from the majority of those around you. Christianity is not the path of least resistance. The path of least resistance won't even get you out of bed on a sunday morning.