Freethought & Rationalism Archive

tronvillain · 03-07-2002, 06:10 PM

cleftone:

Quote:

I don't care enough about you to pity you. And I can judge the happiness of other people, including yours. You may not like that, but it's just the way it is.

Obviously you can judge the happiness of other people, but that doesn't mean you are doing it accurately.

Quote:

No one here has opposed my points for any "reasons" that are anything more than emotionally based.

You haven't made any points.

Pomp · 03-07-2002, 06:29 PM

echidna said:

I don�t think you�ll be very disappointed if I don�t reply.

I'd reply, but the poor mods would have a hell of a time cleaning my response up to the point where it could be reasonably construed as civil discourse.

echidna · 03-07-2002, 07:57 PM

All other correspondents are quite quite excluded, but I found it a little (?) ironic that this type of response could come from someone insisting that they were more mature than the rest of us (???).

Speaks for itself really �

echidna · 03-07-2002, 08:08 PM

Unless they're just trolling ...

Ms. Siv · 03-07-2002, 08:46 PM

Some strong feelings on both sides eh ?

Let me just sum up my position (at the end of this discussion) and leave this thread.

1. Marriage/parenthood are not universal objectives, not even the most meaningful objectives around. There are plenty others equally (if not more) meaningful.

2. Its upto the individual/couple to decide. Its noone else's business as to what they decide.

3. Its wrong to accuse someone with an opposing view as someone who lacks imagination just because they do not concur with yours (thats a logical fallacy as well!).

- Sivakami.

echidna · 03-07-2002, 09:08 PM

Loudspeaker :

Bucket of cold water to MFP !!!

Pomp · 03-07-2002, 09:12 PM

Sivakami, I'll thank you to keep your calm and reasonable outlook out of my angry thread!

Jamie_L · 03-08-2002, 04:56 AM

After my last post, I realized that I would be very interested to hear reasons why people have chosen to be childless. And to be fair, I'd also be interested to hear why other parents wanted kids. Not to judge, but just to understand other people better. Anyone interested in this exchange can check out my new thread in the "Miscelaneous" forum:

<a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=45&t=000245" target="_blank">http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=45&t=000245</a>

Jamie

Blake · 03-08-2002, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cleftone:
Re: alek0's comments: I don't care enough about you to pity you.

Then why did you say you felt sorry for her?

Quote:

And I can judge the happiness of other people, including yours.

You can do anything you're capable of; it doesn't mean it's right or you're entitled to do it.

Quote:

No one here has opposed my points for any "reasons" that are anything more than emotionally based.

Why do instigators of flame wars perenially turn around & accuse their pissed-off detractors of arguing emotionally? It's both insulting and (in this case) untrue. In case you missed my non-emotive point, I'll restate it: Arguing from personal experience is a fallacy. You're thinking like a theist, Cleftone. Time for a little more self-education (for the sake of your boys, if no one else).

Quote:

And re: Andrea Yates - like I said in a previous post, some people shouldn't have kids. Likewise, you should keep in mind that 'hard cases make bad law'. Citing an extreme example like this to defend against a general rule is quite pointless, and therefore, ridiculous.

You conveniently overlooked alek0's mention of the hundreds of thousands of parents who abuse their children in more mundane but no less horrifying ways. They're not extreme examples, they're run-of-the-mill, and sufficient rebuttal of this "general rule" you think you're expounding.

Quote:

You're so god-damned self-absorbed, you can't possibly fathom that someone outside of yourself could know anything negative about you, in accord with standards that just might be completely outside of you as well.

Nothing "emotional" going on there, no sir ....

Quote:

More tomorrow, I gotta go.

Can't wait.

Blake

cleftone · 03-08-2002, 09:17 AM

Well, I see there is even more to deal with here. I'll try to reply to it all, just give me a few minutes...

clef

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03-07-2002, 06:29 PM	#102
Pomp Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Indianapolis area Posts: 3,468	echidna said: I don�t think you�ll be very disappointed if I don�t reply. I'd reply, but the poor mods would have a hell of a time cleaning my response up to the point where it could be reasonably construed as civil discourse.

03-07-2002, 07:57 PM	#103
echidna Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,832	All other correspondents are quite quite excluded, but I found it a little (?) ironic that this type of response could come from someone insisting that they were more mature than the rest of us (???). Speaks for itself really �

03-07-2002, 08:08 PM	#104
echidna Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,832	Unless they're just trolling ...

03-07-2002, 08:46 PM	#105
Ms. Siv Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: India Posts: 2,340	Some strong feelings on both sides eh ? Let me just sum up my position (at the end of this discussion) and leave this thread. 1. Marriage/parenthood are not universal objectives, not even the most meaningful objectives around. There are plenty others equally (if not more) meaningful. 2. Its upto the individual/couple to decide. Its noone else's business as to what they decide. 3. Its wrong to accuse someone with an opposing view as someone who lacks imagination just because they do not concur with yours (thats a logical fallacy as well!). - Sivakami.

03-07-2002, 09:08 PM	#106
echidna Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,832	Loudspeaker : Bucket of cold water to MFP !!!

03-07-2002, 09:12 PM	#107
Pomp Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Indianapolis area Posts: 3,468	Sivakami, I'll thank you to keep your calm and reasonable outlook out of my angry thread!

03-08-2002, 04:56 AM	#108
Jamie_L Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: U.S. Posts: 2,565	After my last post, I realized that I would be very interested to hear reasons why people have chosen to be childless. And to be fair, I'd also be interested to hear why other parents wanted kids. Not to judge, but just to understand other people better. Anyone interested in this exchange can check out my new thread in the "Miscelaneous" forum: <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=45&t=000245" target="_blank">http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=45&t=000245</a> Jamie

03-08-2002, 09:17 AM	#110
cleftone Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: #1 Intellectual Wasteland - California Posts: 58	Well, I see there is even more to deal with here. I'll try to reply to it all, just give me a few minutes... clef

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