Rousseau_CHN

Recently? that sounds more like cold war stuff. The first time I went to China, I was told to simply give my uncle an attache case, nothing expensive. Because expensive things might catch the notice of a politburo member. but that was decades ago.

since then China has changed . drastically. it is now more open, and to much of our surprise, freer. They no longer need to secure permission to see a "foreign" friend.

(sorry if I'm little disorganized...couldn't get my eyes open...gnayt.)

victorialis

hey Rousseau. I hear similar things about China today. May it continue likewise.

Harumi

As Taiwanese, I would be ill-advised to visit China.

My cousin had a friend once who went to visit on vacation.

They had people following her, and when she went to bed, people actually entered her room and searched her things! They thought that she was asleep at the time.

Sitting on the tourbus, they also specifically assigned her to a spot between two Chinese people so that she would be watched if she tried to spread her "evil nationalist ways" to the populace.

All this, because besides being Taiwanese, she was also a teacher.



And get this: this occurred just three years ago.

victorialis

old habits take a long time to change.

Harumi

I've heard it's still like that over there in China...well, based on the treatment I've gotten from people who are from mainland China, the enmity between the two is still going strong. For one, they absolutely detest it whenever we mention that we're Taiwanese, not Chinese. During the Olympics, the Chinese made a big fuss over Taiwanese students waving the Taiwan flag.

I was especially pissed during Olympics when all they allowed the players to do was wave that lame olympics flag and announced them as "China-Taipei".

We're an independent country no matter what the government says. We have our own president, our own system of economy, and besides, we're a democracy, and we're a free, liberal, pro-USA country.

Stupid China.

...

For the same reason why I can sleep peacefully at night...but what's with the loaded 12ga semiauto shotgun next to the bed?

For the same reason why I can walk/drive around openly...but what's with the .45 Kimber P1911 pistol in my waistband?

For the same reason why I can download freely from the Internet...but what's with that antivirus software?

Get the point? We trust, but take precautions to ensure that trust won't be abused.

Harumi

Okay, perhaps now I should actually answer the question without hijacking the thread.

There is such a thing as trust. When you're talking to a friend about your worries, you trust that he/she will understand.

With your parents. With the people at work. In the mall. You trust the fact that the people around you aren't going to suddenly turn around to attack.

The police. If your house was on fire, you dial 911 and trust that the system will work and save you before the house burns down.

Trust is what makes human society work. The very act of socialization requires trust. If you don't want to trust anyone, live as a hermit.

And at the risk of sounding corny and cheesy, trust can also be the cause of great hurts, but it can be the cause of great joy. It all just depends on which one you feel is more important: trying to avoid getting hurt, or not feeling joy.

All's up to the individual.

victorialis

heya harumi. I think maybe we can weave this together.

China trusts its past. The past, after all, is a known quantity and China has a lot of it -- a few thousand years; more than most of the rest of us can claim, anyway. Not much good to forget it.

Look what happened with the Cultural Revolution (that's what I had been reading about, FWIW). It was an attempt to replace traditional attitudes with new ones, all at one swoop. Disastrous. You don't need me to tell you about that.

Today China maintains its historical attitude toward Taiwan; it views Taiwan as a rebellious province.

What would it take for China to cease seeing Taiwan as earth of the Middle Kingdom? What would China have to trust in?

Only a gradualist approach makes sense. China's own identity -- its self-concept -- is undergoing radical change. Trust is almost impossible when that is happening. One no longer knows oneself.

Harumi

Hmmm...

Taiwan did not become a so-called 'province' until much later. Perhaps China needs to review it's past and trust in it some more instead of twisting it to serve it's own needs.

Hey, victorialis I like this game!

victorialis

me too, harumi. Now --- if we can just figure out how to keep from getting hauled off to the PD forum for talking Taiwan-China politics...

while I ponder that... happy new year.

I do believe we can get this back onto moral foundations and principles. maybe I'm wrong, but if I am I'll have to see it for myself. Please excuse me if I say anything really ignorant in my attempts, I have much more curiosity than knowledge.

you and i appear to own this terribly snarly and dangerous topic at the moment. heheheheh... are we foolish?

or do we trust? the world wouldn't stop for me being scared. gotta go on anyway.

i'm really curious about this. you mentioned "they absolutely detest it whenever we mention that we're Taiwanese, not Chinese." How many years -- or how many generations -- have they been acting like this? I don't know enough history yet and I never will.

I ask the question because although the pace of change within China must be horrifying to them, there's been enough of it lately that even they must be getting used to it at least a little.