Freethought & Rationalism Archive

jfryejr · 08-22-2003, 09:56 AM

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We can't know this in that objective sense.

Then why endow his creation with reason...if his existence is unreasonable. It would seem the ability to reason he gave us would be damning us. It would be like giving a kid steroids to make him big. Sure, it helps in the short run, but shrinks his balls and makes him sterile in the long run.

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You have to believe that the bible in this instance is the Truth.

Why? Why the Bible specifically?

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...but then it doesn't matter what I say or a book says.

Exactly!

Calzaer · 08-22-2003, 10:01 AM

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You communicate.

The planets spin, the sun shines.

You're absolutely right! PRAISE VISHNU!

Zucco · 08-22-2003, 10:03 AM

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Originally posted by Darth Dane

We can't know this in that objective sense. You have to believe that the bible in this instance is the Truth. We can easily just say we don't believe, but then it doesn't matter what I say or a book says.

Exactly. But why believe the bible and Christianity? Why not believe the Hindus, or the Muslims, or the Buddhists, etc., etc., ad naseum? You can't know any of them empirically; they're all based on "faith." Why believe one over the other?

Maybe religion is exactly what it looks like -- a bunch of myths made up by ancient man to explain a world he didn't understand. Isn't this the simplest and most probable explanation?

MooWare · 08-22-2003, 10:47 AM

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Originally posted by Magus55
Basically, Jesus will "rapture" all believers both dead and alive and bring them to Heaven. Then Jesus will unleash the 7 seals and cast Judgement on the world that now consists of nothing but unsaved sinners. After the 7 years of judgement ( known as the Tribulation), Jesus will return to Earth (His second coming) at the mount of Olives, and rule over the world for 1000 years ( the Millenium Kingdom). This will be a time of complete and absolute peace. The people that live during this time will be those that survived the Tribulation and accepted Jesus as their Savior. After the Millenium kingdom, God will bind Satan and the fallen angels to the Lake of Fire, destroy the Earth and recreate it to perfection, and then the Great White Throne Judgement, where God judges the lives of every human and whether they received Christ or not. Those who are judged guilty and without a Savior will be cast into the Lake of fire for eternity, those that are judged blameless through Christ will spend the rest of eternity in New Jerusalem ( Heaven on Earth).

New to the forum here, and thought I would throw in my two cents for what it's worth..

How conveniantly laid out is the above scenario?

I'm wondering which hell would be worse? Being cast out with Satan and the boys, or to spend an eternity in servitude and worship to a god who demands it?

Starboy · 08-22-2003, 11:21 AM

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Originally posted by Zucco
OK, I'm a little confused by the whole "second coming" thing. What is the point of this? What is Jesus going to accomplish this time that he didn't the first?

Maybe he left his hat?

Starboy

Magus55 · 08-22-2003, 12:41 PM

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Originally posted by Zucco

Maybe religion is exactly what it looks like -- a bunch of myths made up by ancient man to explain a world he didn't understand. Isn't this the simplest and most probable explanation?

Nope, because everything surrounding religion is way too complicated for humans to do it alone. We are stupid primates( or so you think).

And anyway. Explaining a world ancient man didn't understand, doesn't account for where Christianity came from. If Jesus wasn't real, and in turn, didn't do anything He claimed to, why in the world would you ever go through all that work to make it succeed? The Apostles would have just stuck with Judaism if nothing surrounding Christianity was real.

Magus55 · 08-22-2003, 12:43 PM

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Originally posted by MooWare

I'm wondering which hell would be worse? Being cast out with Satan and the boys, or to spend an eternity in servitude and worship to a god who demands it?

If God demanded it, Hell wouldn't exist. The reason people do go to Hell, is because God doesn't force you to love Him. And i'd rather spend all of eternity praising and worshipping God, than 1 day in Hell. As would most Christians.

MooWare · 08-22-2003, 12:57 PM

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Originally posted by Magus55
If God demanded it, Hell wouldn't exist. The reason people do go to Hell, is because God doesn't force you to love Him. And i'd rather spend all of eternity praising and worshipping God, than 1 day in Hell. As would most Christians.

Of course god demands it. What "choice" do you have? you will either love god or you will suffer the most gruesome things ever conceived

Magus55 · 08-22-2003, 01:00 PM

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Originally posted by MooWare
Of course god demands it. What "choice" do you have? you will either love god or you will suffer the most gruesome things ever conceived

How is that a demand? God told you the consequence of rejecting Him, as do tons of other Christians, yet you still ignore it. If God demanded you to worship Him or else, you wouldn't be able to make any other choice. You would follow Him whether you wanted to or not. When God demands something, you don't say no.

Heathen Dawn · 08-22-2003, 01:04 PM

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Originally posted by Magus55
Nope, because everything surrounding religion is way too complicated for humans to do it alone. We are stupid primates( or so you think).

Religion has arisen naturally, in the mind of Homo sapiens, just as have his languages. As we find in Neanderthal burial practices, religion was borne out of a reaction to the phenomenon of death. Accretions came later. But of course you don't believe in the scientific account of mankind's history.

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And anyway. Explaining a world ancient man didn't understand, doesn't account for where Christianity came from. If Jesus wasn't real, and in turn, didn't do anything He claimed to, why in the world would you ever go through all that work to make it succeed? The Apostles would have just stuck with Judaism if nothing surrounding Christianity was real.

So I guess that multitudes of people dying for Muhammad's message make it real too? What about the suicide group of David Koresh? Anyone who is deeply enough convinced of the sanctity and truth of a message will be ready to die for it!

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