David M. Payne

Latest news update, some of the camp members at camp ground zero have had al Qaida ties.

JH, you may end up owing me lunch. Time will tell.

David

David M. Payne

They caught the two guys John Mohammad, and his stepson Lee Boyde Malvo in Maryland this morning. Mohammad converted to Islam 17 years ago, was in the army and hated America. If this turns out to be the guys, there is your link to religion, and it's Islam, what a surprise.

Jimmy Higgins, lunachick, what are your thoughts on the breaking developments?


David

Garotte

Hello David Payne;

It has been a long time since we last spoke, and it is great to see that you are still sharing wisdom. I hope that all is well with you.

Hopefully all of the predatory snipers are in custody, and the murders will now end. The law enforcement agencies have done a tremendous job in their efforts to end this travesty.

Be well, be wise, and seek after truth.

PS.
The premice of your first post in this thread was so accurate. Well done.

[ October 24, 2002: Message edited by: Garotte ]</p>

hal9000

It looks like the religious link isn't in the south but the north west with Islamic fundies who are influenced by Al Qaida.

David M. Payne

Yes, long time no see Garotte, nice to see you back on board. All is OK, but not well with me, I have just been diagnosed with diabetes, and as it isn't in my family, the biggest likely hood is my exposure to Agent Orange in Vietnam, where the statistical link is getting extremely high among my generation of vets. I'm sure that the VA will tell me this too is all in my head, just like the PTSD they diagnosed me with, but then told me I didn't get in Vietnam.

Note to all who think about going into the service, keep a journal of everything that happens to you there. You may need to accurately recall events that happened to you thirty years later, or the VA will try to deny you any help for things you acquired while in service to your country.

Unfortunately it looks like I may have been largely on target with my premise. Hopefully this will end this paragraph of Islam's terror here, but this is going to be a long bloody book, and I think we haven’t even gotten through the first chapter yet.

David

muon

David, could you post sources for some of your comments? The mainstream media are reporting that John Allen Muhammed was linked to Nation of Islam (not the typical kind of Muslim extremist!). I haven't seen anything linking him to Al Qaeda yet, or anything linking that camp in Alabama to Muslims. Where are you finding this information?

Garotte

Hello David;

I am very saddened to hear about your diagnosis with diabetes. There are so many walking wounded from our generation, because of that SE Asian fiascal. I will wish for the best, and so concur with your warning to potential inductees. I seem to remember an officer who was charged for refusing certain injections. It is imperative to document, and to not intrinsiclly trust the wisdom of the "powers that be".

As per Oser's astute question. My own perception would place the Nation of Islam and the Al Qaeda as only separated by small degrees. I seem to remember Louis Farrakan meeting with Kadahfi(pardon spelling), with a very amicable reception.
Islam is a proponent and supporter of the use of violence against any non-Islamic,(infidel). The Prophet Muhammed began his "ministry" in the robbing of caravans and the forced conversion at the point of the sword.

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the people of the Book (Jews and Christians), until they pay compensation with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
- Surah 9:29

Hadith 9:50 says no one can be killed for killing an Infidel

I greatly fear that we are seeing only the beginning of the bloodbath to come, as those devoid of mercy begin Jihad upon the vulnerable in the West.

Be well, be wise, and seek after truth.

galiel

Yes, I think we should be quite cautious. In fact, when I checked today after reading David's post, both the authorities and all the media, including public radio, were saying explicitely that, at the moment, there was NO evidence linking anyone involved with Al Qaeda. We simply do not have any facts yet. Let's remember Oklahoma City and be very careful before we jump to conclusions. We have enough madness in our own country.

Jimmy Higgins

What? Are you saying the government is lying to you? Why am I not surprised?
I tell ya, since after WWII, it seems that the bigger enemy to the American Armed Forces are the runners of it and the politicans. I've got a co-worker who had a career in the Navy and tells of the "wonderful" immunization program they had for the Gulf Thing.

The Snipers
I told you it was a pair of people, a Gulf War vet and his cousin. Duh...
But it certainly seems like them. <a href="http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=578&ncid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20021025/ts_nm/crime_shootings_match_dc" target="_blank">Murder weapon a match!</a>
We'll see about the al Qaeda angle. We'll see. I do believe that they asked for a ransom to stop the killings.

David M. Payne

oser; Bits and pieces from CNN and other news media. I stay up late, so some things they were running with then, they aren’t broadcasting now. You guys know how the news is. Some news reports have been accurate, some haven't. The Alabama link, camp ground zero, doesn’t look like it had any connection at this point, though it looks like there is a link to the Alabama holdup and murder.

As for the rest of my posts, they were all speculation, as was my original post. I had it mostly right as to the God/religion connection and two people being involved in the killings, that was my own take on the killer based on what I was seeing. I just saw a news report that said the car had a porthole in it. Was it used to shoot out of? I think so. Again, we'll see, but I did speculate on that possibility early on. My mind just works that way guys, I didn't have any more info than any of you did. I looked at what was happening and figured it out. I guessed right for the most part so far, and as for an al Qaida link, like Jimmy said, we'll see. I think we'll find out that they will have been involved with groups that have lose ties to al Qaida, but we won't have any smoking gun, like say a picture of bin Laden and John Mohammad together. Terrorism doesn’t work like that. By the way Jimmy, I think you owe me lunch, now how we can get together so I can collect will be the challenge. And if we can't arrange the meet, at least own up to the lunch debt, OK?

Also Jimmy, yes I'm disappointed in how the VA is dealing with me, and I'm not alone with this problem. There are a lot of guys and gals who have it far worse than I do. But this is still the best country in the world, though it could use some major improvements, and I have been pretty consistent in my writings on that.

Galiel, we are just regular people here speculating on the events of the killings. (I won't call him a sniper because he doesn’t deserve the label.) I don't think I was jumping to conclusions so much as just looking at what was going on and speculating on who and why. When you get it right, you get to have Jimmy buy you lunch, maybe.

Garrote, yes I do believe you have it right, these groups are intertwined. I like your quotes from the Surah and Qu'ran. All these religions have blood on their hands. I'll have something related to that that you guys may enjoy, later this year.



David