John Page

You are supposing, now. I am supposing, now. Unless you have time-travel I don't see how you're going to collect the evidence on this one. Perhaps an example regarding past truths/facts might serve better.

yguy

Evidence for what? That the occurrence of astronomical events is independent of anyone's perception of them?

Since I don't see how it would, perhaps you can provide an example which supports your position.

Tazz10m

John, there are no "truths"... there is only one "truth". The rest is what people believe, or disbelieve, or are confused about, or haven't seen, or whatever.

Just because someone believes something is true, doesn't make it true.

Truth is not a matter of convenience, but it can be convenient for some, and inconvenient for others.

Truth stands alone, surrounded by itself, solid as rock.

Truth is a light, and when held out in front, all things can be seen in all directions. That which may be hidden, will soon be revealed, as light gets around.

Truth is a good nutritious bread, and when eaten, brings health and strength.

Truth is a solid rock, and when used as a foundation to build upon, is strong and will not be blown away in a storm, or broken up when the earth shakes, or washed away in a flood.

John Page

Please can you state what the one truth is, you listed 4.

John Page

Here's what you said "If every mind in the universe should perish today, the earth would still revolve around the sun; therefore, it would be true that the earth revolves around the sun."

Future astronomical events are a matter of conjecture and as yet are unperceived.

I was asking what evidence you could provide to support your assertion. Perhaps we will be able to test it tomorrow.

Cheers, John

yguy

This is nothing but pharisaical straining out of gnats. You know very well that I'm only pointing out that the extermination of sentient life would not cause the earth to cease revolving around the sun; and that the truth of that would therefore continue to exist.

John Page

....if there was a mind to think it. BTW, yes, I'm not making an idealist claim that reality ceases to exist if the mind ceases to exist.

Can you show me how a truth that exists external to a mind? I'm looking for something I can "pin down".

Cheers, John

yguy

That may not be your intention, but it seems to me an inescapable consequence of your position.

Well now, if I could show you such a truth, it could hardly exist outside the mind, could it?

Leaving the mind of God out of it, it was true that gamma rays existed before anyone knew they did.

From dictionary.com:

truth:
5.
a. Reality; actuality.
b. often Truth That which is considered to be the supreme reality and to have the ultimate meaning and value of existence.

Now if we use definition a, it seems that in this example we have a truth which existed outside the mind. If we use b, it seems that meaning cannot exist in a vacuum, in which case your position would be correct. So I guess the question I have is why we shoud use b rather than a.

Tazz10m

John, i didn't list any, but indicated one.

I'd recommend you get a good dictionary, then go back and read/study these posts carefully.

John Page

I saw a list of words that described 4 instances of truths put forward by you. Please indicate the "one truth" you claim exists.
I tried that years ago - conclusion, the dictionary defines words in terms of other words.

Cheers, John