Hedwig

Man, that would suck. If every time was like the first time, just give me hell.

Queen of Swords

OK, here is what my Muslim friend says about heaven :

Men and women will both get whatever they desire in heaven. Virgins, food, anything. Heaven is a place of eternal pleasure where all your wants are satisfied.

On judgement day, you will not remember if you were married. You will not recognize your spouse, mother, child, etc. My friend says that this enables people to be judged as individuals, rather than grouped together with any family; I think it also makes life easier to bear if your children or spouse were sent to hell. The end result of this is that in heaven, you don't have to worry about fidelity to a spouse. There is no marriage in heaven, so you can just have sex, if that's what you like. The part about virgins is because virgins are considered to be very pure and beautiful and sweet, and of course heaven has nothing but the best for its inhabitants.

Personally, I would find this consistently hedonistic existence extremely boring, but that's just me.

Regarding suicide bombers, my friend says they will not get into heaven because suicide is a sin according to the Qu'ran.

Fluffy

Is this actually written in the Qu'ran or is this her opinion?

[ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: Fluffy ]</p>

Megatron

So, by that reasoning, the slaughter of thousands was alright? These assholes would be happily sticking virgins in heaven if they had simply brought parachutes and bailed out before the crashes? What?!?

-edit to add-

(Please don't take that shot personally, QoS, it's directed at the statement itself, not at you - and I've heard that from more than one muslim already. Needless to say, it makes me f*cking irate.)

[ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: Archangel ]</p>

DMB

QoS: I think quite a lot of your friend's input is a personal gloss. I can't find most of that in the koran, anyway.

The question of what happens to suicide bombers would depend on their status. If they are straightforward suicides, then they don't go to paradise. If they are martyrs in a jihad, then they do. Their supporters are very careful to describe them as martyrs.

I think the preference for virgins is a matter of possessiveness (no-one else has enjoyed them) and tight elasticity (something lost to an extent after childbearing and much prized, I am told, by men).

If all they get is raisins after all, then they might not mind so much about exclusive possession.

Another thing that strikes me about the paradise of the koran is that it is especially designed to be attractive to people living in a hot, dry climate. It's all about gardens, running water, shade, fruit and drinks. Those of us from more northerly climes might hanker more for light and warmth.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by DMB:
<strong>QoS: I think quite a lot of your friend's input is a personal gloss. I can't find most of that in the koran, anyway.</strong>

Well, I asked her if this was actually in the Qu'ran and she said yes, also that all Muslims (Sunni and Shi'ite) believed it. Ditto for the suicide bombers - they won't go to heaven because they committed suicide. I get the impression that the mass murders took something of a second place to that, but no doubt would also have been taken into consideration on Judgement Day. Don't forget, a lot of the people in the towers/planes were heretics, and it has been argued that the bombers were trying to protect Islam.

Throbert McGee

Seems much nicer than the tacky, gem-encrusted heaven envisioned by St. John, which just screams New Money. ("And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass," Rev. 21:21)

Mind you, both the Christian and the Islamic conceptions of infinite bliss show a certain... what shall we call it, poverty of imagination, or lack of ambition? (As though the Creator of fifty billion galaxies would have a fetish for glittery d&eacute;cor and fabulous snacks. Oh, wait -- I forgot he's the same God who runs around smiting folks like a petty desert chieftain, so maybe he'd go for the pearls after all.)

Hedwig

So basically all the stuff religionists are supposed to deny in life you get in abundance when you're dead? Wow.

Ysabella

I can't be sure of this, but I've read that the women are told they will be the architects of heaven. So when they die, they work, and build heaven for everyone else to enjoy. I forgot where I read this, it may have been Princess by Jean Sasson, the story of an Al Saud. Or it may have been Unveiled by Cherry Mosteshar, about life in Iran.

The other issue is that jihad isn't really supposed to be "war", it actually means "effort", (found a good explanation <a href="http://www.cqpress.com/context/articles/epr_jihad.html" target="_blank">here</a>) primarily the effort to submit oneself totally to the will of God. But there is all kinds of discussion about this word (Arabic words are apparently imprecise - one word can either mean to beat your wife or to "strike her with a feather").

[ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: Ysabella ]</p>

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by MeanderThroughLife:
<strong>So basically all the stuff religionists are supposed to deny in life you get in abundance when you're dead? Wow.</strong>

Exactly! You've paid your dues on earth, fasted, denied yourself sex, whatever - but now all that's over, habibi, it's party time!