Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Soul Invictus · 03-19-2003, 07:06 AM

I haven't read a lot on this man, but from what I have read, he was a consummate charismatic character. In the movie Nixon, (the first half I've seen) he was able to manipulate Nixon, pretty much at will. I was hoping we could generate a thread to this powerful figure in American history, his place in that history, and his methodology regarding foreign policy (including your personal feelings on his actions/abilitities)

seanie · 03-19-2003, 07:28 AM

Well in the unlikley event somebody does manange to indict him as a war criminal you'll probably get to read a whole lot more about him.

emphryio · 03-19-2003, 08:06 AM

Concerning the part about East Timor. There are supposed transcripts that detail Ford, Kissinger, and .... Suharto / Suharno? discussing Indonesia's planned attack of East Timor in which Kissinger and Ford give the go ahead.

seanie · 03-19-2003, 08:31 AM

There's a declassified State Department document you can link to from here.

Quote:

Ford and Kissinger took great pains to assure Suharto that they would not oppose the invasion. Ford was unambiguous: �We will understand and will not press you on the issue. We understand the problem and the intentions you have.� Kissinger did indeed stress that �the use of US-made arms could create problems,� but then added that, �It depends on how we construe it; whether it is in self defense or is a foreign operation.� Thus, Kissinger�s concern was not about whether U.S. arms would be used offensively�and hence illegally�but whether the act would actually be interpreted as such�a process he clearly intended to manipulate. In any case, Kissinger added: �It is important that whatever you do succeeds quickly.�

Indeed, timing and damage control were very important to the Americans, as Kissinger told Suharto: �We would be able to influence the reaction in America if whatever happens happens after we return. . . If you have made plans, we will do our best to keep everyone quiet until the President returns home.�

As Hitchens notes here;

Quote:

Adam Malik, Indonesia's foreign minister at the time, later conceded in public that between 50,000 and 80,000 Timorese civilians were killed in the first eighteen months of the occupation. These civilians were killed with American weapons, which Kissinger contrived to supply over Congressional protests, and their murders were covered up by American diplomacy, and the rapid rate of their murder was something that had been urged in so many words by an American Secretary of State.

seanie · 03-19-2003, 10:08 AM

And if you asking for my personal feelings on his appropriate place in history I vote "nailed to a tree".

03-19-2003, 07:06 AM	#1
Soul Invictus Contributor Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 15,576	On Henry Kissinger I haven't read a lot on this man, but from what I have read, he was a consummate charismatic character. In the movie Nixon, (the first half I've seen) he was able to manipulate Nixon, pretty much at will. I was hoping we could generate a thread to this powerful figure in American history, his place in that history, and his methodology regarding foreign policy (including your personal feelings on his actions/abilitities)

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

03-19-2003, 07:28 AM	#2
seanie Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edinburgh. Scotland Posts: 2,532	Well in the unlikley event somebody does manange to indict him as a war criminal you'll probably get to read a whole lot more about him.

03-19-2003, 08:06 AM	#3
emphryio Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: WV Posts: 4,369	Concerning the part about East Timor. There are supposed transcripts that detail Ford, Kissinger, and .... Suharto / Suharno? discussing Indonesia's planned attack of East Timor in which Kissinger and Ford give the go ahead.

03-19-2003, 10:08 AM	#5
seanie Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edinburgh. Scotland Posts: 2,532	And if you asking for my personal feelings on his appropriate place in history I vote "nailed to a tree".

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.