Freethought & Rationalism Archive

emotional · 04-18-2003, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jesse
That doesn't follow at all. There are plenty of people who believe in an afterlife who don't think NDEs have anything to do with it.

I was talking from my viewpoint. For me, NDEs are the proof of life after death; although there are others, none is so convincing as NDEs. My whole belief in life after death rests nearly solely on the evidence of NDEs.

Alludium Fozdex · 04-18-2003, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by emotional
My whole belief in life after death rests nearly solely on the evidence of NDEs.

I gather, then, that you've had one...?

emotional · 04-18-2003, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gerald
I gather, then, that you've had one...?

No, unfortunately I've never had an NDE myself. I content myself with taking by faith those accounts of other people who have had NDEs. If I'd had an NDE myself, I'd have no doubt about life after death, and my fear of death would have vanished. Currently all I have now is faith, mixed with a lot of doubt I'm trying to eradicate.

dbporter · 04-18-2003, 12:22 PM

I thought I was joining a forum for skeptics. It reads like a pluralism of religious beliefs here, whether science/method, naturalism, NDEs, whatever. I do detect some strains of disappointment, maybe cynicism. I thought skepticism is a basic mindset not only being skeptical about certain things?

Feather · 04-18-2003, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dbporter
I thought I was joining a forum for skeptics. It reads like a pluralism of religious beliefs here, whether science/method, naturalism, NDEs, whatever. I do detect some strains of disappointment, maybe cynicism. I thought skepticism is a basic mindset not only being skeptical about certain things?

You seem to have confused ordinary skepticism with universal philosophical skepticism.

I refer you to this informative page for more details.

Here's an excerpt from the skeptic.com website.

Quote:

Philosophical Skepticism is a critical attitude which systematically questions the notion that absolute knowledge and certainty are possible, either in general or in particular fields. Philosophical Skepticism is opposed to philosophical dogmatism, which maintains that a certain set of positive statements are authoritative, absolutely certain and true.

Philosophical Skepticism should be distinguished from ordinary skepticism, where doubts are raised against certain beliefs or types of beliefs because the evidence for the particular belief or type of belief is weak or lacking. Ordinary skeptics are not credulous or gullible. They don't take things on trust, but must see the evidence before believing. Ordinary skeptics doubt the miraculous claims of religions, the claims of alien abductions, the claims of psychoanalysis, etc. But they do not necessarily doubt that certainty or knowledge is possible. Nor do they doubt these things because of systematic arguments that undermine all knowledge claims.

I think you'll find the overwhelming majority of people here at II are ordinary skeptics. I am one, for example.

Mageth · 04-18-2003, 02:19 PM

But if science is as arbitrary as the religion it replaced, arbitrariness wins!

Science replaced a religion? I musta missed the memo.

Mageth · 04-18-2003, 02:21 PM

I was talking from my viewpoint. For me, NDEs are the proof of life after death; although there are others, none is so convincing as NDEs. My whole belief in life after death rests nearly solely on the evidence of NDEs.

Umm, emotional, NDE stands for near-death experience. As in those who recount them didn't die. They're at best evidence of life after near death.

Mageth · 04-18-2003, 02:23 PM

No, unfortunately I've never had an NDE myself.

I'm glad I haven't. Being in bad enough shape to be that near death ain't something I wanna do, that's for sure.

Mageth · 04-18-2003, 02:30 PM

Look, there's a lot at stake with the NDE claims. If it's true that there is life after death, then your whole worldview is coloured anew. First, the axiom that "nature is all there is" will have been broken;

Not necessarily; if life after death is ever proven (and since, after thousands of years of trying, we're still staring at a blank screen, I don't think that's likely), it's possible that it may be a natural phenomenon.

second, practically speaking, the philosophy of "this world is all there is, enjoy your short life" will have to be revised to.

What if life after death turns out to be nothing but reincarnation into another creature in this world, or even living your life over and over again?

We aren't talking about claims in a vacuum here.

It's more like smoke in a bong.

dbporter · 04-19-2003, 04:58 AM

Ah!

04-18-2003, 12:22 PM	#24
dbporter Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: USA Posts: 35	skeptics? I thought I was joining a forum for skeptics. It reads like a pluralism of religious beliefs here, whether science/method, naturalism, NDEs, whatever. I do detect some strains of disappointment, maybe cynicism. I thought skepticism is a basic mindset not only being skeptical about certain things?

04-19-2003, 04:58 AM	#30
dbporter Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: USA Posts: 35	re: ordinary skeptics Ah!

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04-18-2003, 02:19 PM	#26
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	But if science is as arbitrary as the religion it replaced, arbitrariness wins! Science replaced a religion? I musta missed the memo.

04-18-2003, 02:21 PM	#27
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	I was talking from my viewpoint. For me, NDEs are the proof of life after death; although there are others, none is so convincing as NDEs. My whole belief in life after death rests nearly solely on the evidence of NDEs. Umm, emotional, NDE stands for near-death experience. As in those who recount them didn't die. They're at best evidence of life after near death.

04-18-2003, 02:23 PM	#28
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	No, unfortunately I've never had an NDE myself. I'm glad I haven't. Being in bad enough shape to be that near death ain't something I wanna do, that's for sure.

04-18-2003, 02:30 PM	#29
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Look, there's a lot at stake with the NDE claims. If it's true that there is life after death, then your whole worldview is coloured anew. First, the axiom that "nature is all there is" will have been broken; Not necessarily; if life after death is ever proven (and since, after thousands of years of trying, we're still staring at a blank screen, I don't think that's likely), it's possible that it may be a natural phenomenon. second, practically speaking, the philosophy of "this world is all there is, enjoy your short life" will have to be revised to. What if life after death turns out to be nothing but reincarnation into another creature in this world, or even living your life over and over again? We aren't talking about claims in a vacuum here. It's more like smoke in a bong.

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