Nou

Whoa! Where did that come from?

Please enlighten me as to where I was defending baby-cutting.

RRoman

I think he is referring to your post in which you describe the more extreme form of FGM. It makes it seem as though you think that male circumcision is not "terrifying,extremely painful both mentally and physically and unhealthy" and that these things only apply to FGM.

Julie

Ahh that "bit of overlapping skin" Has over 10,000 nerve endings and is ~12 SQUARE INCHES in size on an adult man. It is much much more than just an over lapping piece of skin.

Nou

RRoman, I never said either practice was acceptable. I only said they were different. IMO, clitoridectomy is like castration and not circumcision.

And yes, sometimes I think that female circumcision should be allowed to be done in hospitals. At least that way so many infections can be avoided. It's a practice so deeply rooted in culture and religion, that a simple ban does nothing to decrease the number of operations, it just makes them to be performed illegally in horrific conditions.

Derec

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And nobody said they were not different. That's why Benny made the analogy with removing the clitoral hood and labia minora rather than the full FMG which is much more intrusive.

Quote:

IMO, clitoridectomy is like castration and not circumcision.

Not quite. For one there is much clitoral tissue that is not removed and secondly the FGM does not affect hormones such as castration.

Quote:

And yes, sometimes I think that female circumcision should be allowed to be done in hospitals. At least that way so many infections can be avoided.

I disagree. That would legitimize the practice.

Quote:

It's a practice so deeply rooted in culture and religion, that a simple ban does nothing to decrease the number of operations, it just makes them to be performed illegally in horrific conditions.

An enforced ban would certainly help. If a gynecologist or other doctor detects FGM then why shouldn't the parents be held accountable?

UMoC

Nou

UglyManOnCampus, I'm still waiting for you to show me where I defended mutilation of defensless babies.

Anyway, my analogy to castration was wrong, as it involves removal of the testes. I just used a wrong term, because I was too lazy to type "removal of penis".

However, my original comparison of female circumcision to removal of the penis is still valid. A clitoris is an organ homologous to the penis. Female circumcision varies from region to region, and the degree of mutilation varies. The most common practice is to remove the clitoris or it's external part and some labia minora. Male circumcision is a removal of foreskin. You just cannot compare the two. You could, if male circumcision was removal of the external part of penis, leaving the testes intact.

As for the enforced ban of FC, it would be virtually inefficient. For one, if everyone in a particular culture believes female circumcision should be done, who will report it and who will punish the parents? Then, even if doctors did report it, the parents can just stop bringing their child to the doctor. It's like abortions - in countries where they are illegal, the number of abortions doesn't decrease, they are just performed illegally with considerable risks and complications for women health. IMO, gradual re-education is the only key to stopping the practice.

alek0

1. According to WHO, cleanliness is one of the reasons given for FGM.
http://www.who.int/inf-fs/en/fact241.html
"The reasons given by families for having FGM performed include:

psychosexual reasons: reduction or elimination of the sensitive tissue of the outer genitalia, particularly the clitoris, in order to attenuate sexual desire in the female, maintain chastity and virginity before marriage and fidelity during marriage, and increase male sexual pleasure;

sociological reasons: identification with the cultural heritage, initiation of girls into womanhood, social integration and the maintenance of social cohesion;

hygiene and aesthetic reasons: the external female genitalia are considered dirty and unsightly and are to be removed to promote hygiene and provide aesthetic appeal;

myths: enhancement of fertility and promotion of child survival;

religious reasons: Some Muslim communities, however, practise FGM in the belief that it is demanded by the Islamic faith. The practice, however, predates Islam. "

2. FGM, even in its most horrifying form- infibulation, does not prevent women from having sex. So your analogy with removal of the penis is false. Furthermore, women who have undergone FGM can still have orgasms:
http://www.fgmnetwork.org/announceme...teline_nigeria
Okonofua, F.E., et al. 2002: The association between female genital cutting and correlates of sexual and gynaecological morbidity in Edo State, Nigeria. British Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, 109(10): 1089-1096

http://www.fgmnetwork.org/Lightfoot-...experience.htm
The Journal of Sex Research Vol.26. No.3, pp.375-392 August, 1989

3. If we want to stick to anatomically correct analogies, lets compare male circumcision with removal of clitoral prepuce. One of these is illegal and a mutilation. The other is acceptable and it is not a mutilation. Any logic behind this, or is your only reason that your culture considers male circumcision acceptable?

openeyes

FWIW, if it had been up to me solely, when my sons were born I would've let them stay "natural". Unfortunately, their dad, my husband at the time wanted them to be like him, so they were both circumsized. I've never really discussed it with my sons (gee, they're 16 and 12, I wonder why?) to see if they have an opinion on the procedure.
My sister and her husband let their son be. His age falls between my two boys.

Part of my point is that it isn't necessarily a male versus female thing as some here seem to be arguing.

Secular Elation

Women prefer a circumsized penis?

Damn. Looks like it won't be easy to be laid.

pariah

thats what i was thinking except!!! they wont know ur uncut until after u score once. after that u will have to rely on your hand or get another girl...but at least u have that nice gliding action!