Freethought & Rationalism Archive

sighhswolf · 10-19-2002, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BH:


Not quite. The Bible may have told stories about satan, only to be corrupted by him later. Unless you can provide absolute objective evidence to the contrary, for all I know the devil may have inspired the Bible or good parts of it.

You will have to provide an absolute objective standard of right and wrong independent of Jehovah which he nevertheless is subject to in order to tell if a command is from Satan or not.

And therein lies some of the problem.
The christian god is not subject to any natural laws of any kind.
He is supernatural (per christians) meaning he exists outside of our (humans) reality and is capable of shifting and manipulating reality in any manner he chooses.
Now as far as good and evil is concerned they both eminate from the same source so it is more likely that the christian god is both Jehovah and Satan, and the biblical seperation is only for the benefit of us poor stupid humans so that we can better understand the concept of good vs. evil.
Or desirable vs. undesirable conduct or actions.

See ....this one baaaadddddd.
this one goooddddddddd.
dont be like this bad one....be like this good one.
See.....understand now??
Yes but how come god say he is all.....good and evil??
No more questions.....some things you will never understand about the almighty.
Ohhh ...ok.
Wolf

-RRH- · 10-19-2002, 02:44 PM

I did meet one fellow, who equated the God of the old testament with Satan, (he called him Godthedevil), and Jesus had been sent by a different god to save us from Godthedevil.

I don't know if he was part of a larger religion or a lone wolf, but there may be a loose relationship between his Godthedevil and the Gnostic idea of the demiurge, because Godthedevil's main goal seemed to be tricking us into believing in the physical universe.

I imagine you could easily invert this model, and make Jesus the devil and the OT God the good guy. Jesus could be trying to bring about the end of the world by tricking people into a false religion.

St. Robert · 10-19-2002, 03:36 PM

God was asked, if He is actually Satan and answers it in Matthew 12:22-37.

Veil of Fire · 10-19-2002, 03:44 PM

*LOL*

Sounds something like:

Police Officer: "Hey, are you a serial killer?"

Edward Toole: "Me? Noooo! Absolutely not! Serial killers don't volounteer at churches!"

Police Officer: "Oh, ok then. Have a nice day."

Is that about how the conversation in Matthew went?

Me: "Hey God, are you Satan?"

God: "Heck no! I do lots of nice things, I couldn't be Satan!"

Me: "Oh, ok."

B. H. Manners · 10-19-2002, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by St. Robert:
God was asked, if He is actually Satan and answers it in Matthew 12:22-37.

But the problem is how do you not know Jesus was not lying? For all we know he could have been the devil in disguise and just lied. Too bad if I am blaspheming the Holy Ghost, for I want to know.

I cited additions to the Bible above not contained in other manuscripts. It is an obsolute objective fact forgery has occurred in the Bible. The Bible says Satan tempts men to sin, so he must have tempted the scribes to "add and take away" from the "good book." If I cannot trust some of it I cannot trust any of it out of fear of following Satan.

I bet you are objecting to my question because Satan supposedly cannot do anything good. Well, I disagree, going around doing some good is a great way to get people to fall for the bad stuff you want them to believe. If I were the devil that is exactly what I would do: go around doing some good so as to make people more willing to be tricked into believing the bad stuff I want them to fall for.

You know what: I bet that is just why Jesus was so pissed off for being asked where he got his powers from . He could not prove he was not from Satan and the Pharisees rightly refuted him right there and then.

B. H. Manners · 10-19-2002, 04:51 PM

Funny, I must be the antichrist. I just blasphemed the Holy Ghost in the post above and look what my post count number was: 666.

B. H. Manners · 10-19-2002, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BH:
Funny, I must be the antichrist. I just blasphemed the Holy Ghost in the post above and look what my post count number was: 666.

Well, it was before I added this one.

St. Robert · 10-20-2002, 08:32 AM

It is Satan, who seeks to convince you that Jesus is the enemy. Satan will say 'Jesus can't be trusted' and so on.

Satan's goal is to prevent you from entering into the abundant life that Jesus offers all of us. And yes, he'll disguise the Truth as a lie to deceive.

[ October 20, 2002: Message edited by: St. Robert ]

sighhswolf · 10-20-2002, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by St. Robert:
It is Satan, who seeks to convince you that Jesus is the enemy. Satan will say 'Jesus can't be trusted' and so on.

Satan's goal is to prevent you from entering into the abundant life that Jesus offers all of us. And yes, he'll disguise the Truth as a lie to deceive.

[ October 20, 2002: Message edited by: St. Robert ]

Hum, something like you just posted here?
That kind of circular reasoning?
Wolf

Mageth · 10-20-2002, 02:01 PM

It is Satan, who seeks to convince you that Jesus is the enemy. Satan will say 'Jesus can't be trusted' and so on.
Satan's goal is to prevent you from entering into the abundant life that Jesus offers all of us. And yes, he'll disguise the Truth as a lie to deceive.

But if the Bible was authored by Satan, he could have put in the stuff about "Satan will try to decieve you!" as a ploy to get believers in the bible to reject the real truth, could he not?

10-20-2002, 08:32 AM	#18
St. Robert Regular Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 170	It is Satan, who seeks to convince you that Jesus is the enemy. Satan will say 'Jesus can't be trusted' and so on. Satan's goal is to prevent you from entering into the abundant life that Jesus offers all of us. And yes, he'll disguise the Truth as a lie to deceive. [ October 20, 2002: Message edited by: St. Robert ]</p>

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10-19-2002, 02:44 PM	#12
-RRH- Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 2,047	I did meet one fellow, who equated the God of the old testament with Satan, (he called him Godthedevil), and Jesus had been sent by a different god to save us from Godthedevil. I don't know if he was part of a larger religion or a lone wolf, but there may be a loose relationship between his Godthedevil and the Gnostic idea of the demiurge, because Godthedevil's main goal seemed to be tricking us into believing in the physical universe. I imagine you could easily invert this model, and make Jesus the devil and the OT God the good guy. Jesus could be trying to bring about the end of the world by tricking people into a false religion.

10-19-2002, 03:36 PM	#13
St. Robert Regular Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 170	God was asked, if He is actually Satan and answers it in Matthew 12:22-37.

10-19-2002, 03:44 PM	#14
Veil of Fire Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 451	LOL Sounds something like: Police Officer: "Hey, are you a serial killer?" Edward Toole: "Me? Noooo! Absolutely not! Serial killers don't volounteer at churches!" Police Officer: "Oh, ok then. Have a nice day." Is that about how the conversation in Matthew went? Me: "Hey God, are you Satan?" God: "Heck no! I do lots of nice things, I couldn't be Satan!" Me: "Oh, ok."

10-19-2002, 04:51 PM	#16
B. H. Manners Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,213	Funny, I must be the antichrist. I just blasphemed the Holy Ghost in the post above and look what my post count number was: 666.

10-20-2002, 02:01 PM	#20
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	It is Satan, who seeks to convince you that Jesus is the enemy. Satan will say 'Jesus can't be trusted' and so on. Satan's goal is to prevent you from entering into the abundant life that Jesus offers all of us. And yes, he'll disguise the Truth as a lie to deceive. But if the Bible was authored by Satan, he could have put in the stuff about "Satan will try to decieve you!" as a ploy to get believers in the bible to reject the real truth, could he not?

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