Freethought & Rationalism Archive

cliff999 · 05-28-2003, 08:10 AM

The bible should be treated as a guide to what people thought when it was written, not as a roadmap to how we should live our lives today. That is obvious to the vast majority of people in this forum and to many outside this group, but I thought it bore mentioning in this thread because of the discussion on how the bible treats women.

Of course it places women beneath men. The ancients, whether it be from the Middle East or China (foot binding, anyone?) believed that, just as they believed in slavery and other things we have abandoned (most of us, anyway). Men were physically stronger and more agressive emotionally, so men ruled. It was as simple as that.

Actually, this point is also simple. I guess what I'm trying to say is that discussions about how the bible treats women cannot be imported into a modern context except as a historical clue on how things were done back then. Nothing more.

BioBeing · 05-28-2003, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cliff999
The bible should be treated as a guide to what people thought when it was written, not as a roadmap to how we should live our lives today. That is obvious to the vast majority of people in this forum and to many outside this group, but I thought it bore mentioning in this thread because of the discussion on how the bible treats women.

Of course it places women beneath men. The ancients, whether it be from the Middle East or China (foot binding, anyone?) believed that, just as they believed in slavery and other things we have abandoned (most of us, anyway). Men were physically stronger and more agressive emotionally, so men ruled. It was as simple as that.

Actually, this point is also simple. I guess what I'm trying to say is that discussions about how the bible treats women cannot be imported into a modern context except as a historical clue on how things were done back then. Nothing more.

So I take it then that you are an atheist, cliff999? The bible is a guide - they were stupid and deluded back then, thinking women were inferior, slaves were OK, miracles happen and people get resurrected from the dead.

Fine. So lets just stop pretending its anything more than a poor semi-historical story and get on with our lives.

Rational BAC · 05-28-2003, 08:47 AM

I agree perfectly that the Bible is a poor semi-historical story. Man made, man inspired.

And I am not an atheist, but a Christian.

Point A does not necessarily lead you to point B.

BioBeing · 05-28-2003, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rational BAC
I agree perfectly that the Bible is a poor semi-historical story. Man made, man inspired.

And I am not an atheist, but a Christian.

Point A does not necessarily lead you to point B.

[rant]R'BAC - we know you are a cherry picking Xian. We know you can get from point A to anywhere else in the alphabet without any need for intervening letters. In fact, I think you have picked your bible so clean the only letters left in it are :

G O D D I D I T

My point is simple: as it stands, the bible is a worthless as a moral guide, it is worthless as a science book, it is worthless as a history book. Any book that purports to be any of those things and yet requires some secret decoder ring to get to the Deeper Meaning(TM) is not worth the paper it is printed on. [/rant]

cliff999 · 05-28-2003, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BioBeing
So I take it then that you are an atheist, cliff999? The bible is a guide - they were stupid and deluded back then, thinking women were inferior, slaves were OK, miracles happen and people get resurrected from the dead.

They weren't stupid nor deluded. They just believed what the level of civilization allowed them to believe. I'm sure in a thousand or so years some of what we believe will look silly. It doesn't mean we were stupid. It just means we lack the knowledge that will be available then.

BadBadBad · 05-28-2003, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BioBeing
[rant]R'BAC - we know you are a cherry picking Xian. We know you can get from point A to anywhere else in the alphabet without any need for intervening letters. In fact, I think you have picked your bible so clean the only letters left in it are :

G O D D I D I T

My point is simple: as it stands, the bible is a worthless as a moral guide, it is worthless as a science book, it is worthless as a history book. Any book that purports to be any of those things and yet requires some secret decoder ring to get to the Deeper Meaning(TM) is not worth the paper it is printed on. [/rant]

No kidding! R'BAC, you can't change what the Bible says. You as mere one human don't define Christianity, and you don't define the Christian God. You define your own religion and your own god. We didn't come to these boards to talk about the RBAC christian like (or is it lite) religion, we came to talk about Christianity.

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. " 2 Timothy 3:16-17

No one can deny that a basic tenant of Christianity is defined by these passages on the role of women in relation to men and God. You can deny it has anything to do with the RBAC christian-lite religion, but not Christianity.

BioBeing · 05-28-2003, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cliff999
They weren't stupid nor deluded. They just believed what the level of civilization allowed them to believe. I'm sure in a thousand or so years some of what we believe will look silly. It doesn't mean we were stupid. It just means we lack the knowledge that will be available then.

OK, so not stupid. Maybe just ignorant. They believed the world was flat. They believed God made lightning. They believed in supernatural beings because they couldn't expain their world any other way.

I'm so glad we know better now...

BioBeing · 05-28-2003, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brettc
No kidding! R'BAC, you can't change what the Bible says.

And also 2 Peter 1:20-21

Quote:

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Of course, those are the first bits the Cherry pickers pick out...

Rational BAC · 05-28-2003, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BioBeing
And also 2 Peter 1:20-21

Of course, those are the first bits the Cherry pickers pick out...

Yep--

Most definitely have to pick that bit out.

Cherry pickers can do that without any guilt too.
--------------------------------------------------------------

But I don't really want to derail this thread. I think it is a fascinating discussion. Hang in there Muffin. (not that I actually agree with you)

Hubble head · 05-28-2003, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by paul30
One of the many reasons I am not a Christian is the obnoxious attitude toward women.

For those of you who think the Bible should be followed in this attitude, consider also that the Bible mandates and supports slavery.

Are you willing to go back to that???????

Who says we haven't already. Might be a topic for another thread but I don't think we ever got away from slavery - we just modified it to appear acceptable.

Paying some poor chump minimum wage or 1.00 day in some countries is a lot easier than being responsible for them, sheltering them, feeding them and keeping them healthy. Many of our American businesses do it overseas and right here at home with our friends from the south as I'm writing this.

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05-28-2003, 08:10 AM	#31
cliff999 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fishers, In Posts: 37	The bible should be treated as a guide to what people thought when it was written, not as a roadmap to how we should live our lives today. That is obvious to the vast majority of people in this forum and to many outside this group, but I thought it bore mentioning in this thread because of the discussion on how the bible treats women. Of course it places women beneath men. The ancients, whether it be from the Middle East or China (foot binding, anyone?) believed that, just as they believed in slavery and other things we have abandoned (most of us, anyway). Men were physically stronger and more agressive emotionally, so men ruled. It was as simple as that. Actually, this point is also simple. I guess what I'm trying to say is that discussions about how the bible treats women cannot be imported into a modern context except as a historical clue on how things were done back then. Nothing more.

05-28-2003, 08:47 AM	#33
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	I agree perfectly that the Bible is a poor semi-historical story. Man made, man inspired. And I am not an atheist, but a Christian. Point A does not necessarily lead you to point B.

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