Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Shake · 12-21-2002, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mecca777:
It's funny, because usually in the UK it's something of a non-issue. The majority of people would probably say "Xian" without thinking about it, but they don't go to church; and when I've told people that I'm an atheist they don't usually have much of an opinion.

However, yesterday an odd thing happened. While I was doing some last minute Giftmas shopping, I discovered that the bottom of the largest shopping street in Newcastle was blocked by a medium-sized crowd. Making my way through it, I saw that some evangelical Christians (most with US accents) had set up speakers and a microphone, and were giving it some serious Jesus for the benefit of the Christmas crowds. Around the speaker was a large circle of onlookers - some from the church, most from the general public.

In the centre of the circle was another microphone stand, unattended, where people were being invited to stand up and ask questions. Unsurprisingly, the intimidating setup (half-a-dozen preachers with their families, hundreds of onlookers who just wanted a good old-fashioned scrap) meant that there were no serious takers.

Can you guess what I did next?

When I stepped down after half-an-hour of entertainingly pointless back-and-forth, I went up to the head preacher, shook his hand and said I admired his passion. I asked if he or his church had any contact details, so that I could discuss some of the claims raised where I couldn't provide immediate evidence in more depth (his claim that there was proof of creationism and the existance of Jesus at the Smithsonian was one that I wanted to investigate).

He nodded, turned away, and ignored the hell out of me for twenty minutes while his juniors started telling me about how they had turned away from their old, sinful lives, and found joy in Christ.

Never did get that e-mail address.

SWEEEEET!

:notworthy: :notworthy:

Luiseach · 12-21-2002, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MollyMac:


...I just wanted to answer Luiseach's question.

I'll finishing by saying that of course we can campaign on these issues as individuals, writing letters to MPs, newspapers etc. So I think the real reason I joined one is to have contact with people who feel the same as me - in other words, to feel supported. But perhaps that's not so important nowadays when we have access to brilliant boards like this one. (So thanks)

Thank you MollyMac for your thorough and honest response to my question. :-)

I think I understand better now why some of us non-believers decide to become active atheists, rather than just drop the belief systems (like I have done). I see where you're coming from - about finding like-minded people I mean - I agree that this can be important, especially in the face of a society that is often (not always, but often) pervaded by a status quo that seems to appeal to believers?

A supportive community is crucial to developing a strong sense of identity; we need to accept ourselves as atheists without feeling as if we have to always defend out position. It's often the case in life that it is more difficult to prove something doesn't exist than it is to prove something does exist. Odd.

Thanks again for your response.

Luiseach

Secular Elation · 12-21-2002, 11:03 AM

I never say a word about my nonbelief unless someone else brings up the subject. In fact, I would prefer to supress any expression of my nonbelief. I'm just a normal person like everyone else. There is no reason for me to proceed in public spouting my personal stances.

Toto · 12-21-2002, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mecca777:
. . .I asked if he or his church had any contact details, so that I could discuss some of the claims raised where I couldn't provide immediate evidence in more depth (his claim that there was proof of creationism and the existance of Jesus at the Smithsonian was one that I wanted to investigate). . .

Sounds like you had a bit of fun there.

For the record, this is what the Smithsonian has to say about the Bible:

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/9156/ssotb.htm" target="_blank">The Smithsonian's Department of Anthropology on the historical value of the Bible</a> also online <a href="http://www.quinnell.us/religion/reasons/smithsonian.html" target="_blank">here</a> (with more supporting information but hard to read typeface).

For some reason Christians love to quote the Smithsonian (it's easy to see the one paragraph they like in particular and the others that they never seem to quote), in part because the Smithsonian has said <a href="http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/smithsonian.shtml" target="_blank">dismissive things about the value of the book of Mormon</a>.

debaser71 · 12-22-2002, 03:04 AM

"How vocal I am about being a non-believer varies proportionally with how vocal the people around me are about being believers. "

tit for tat (is that the expression)

Anyway it's funny how when people find out I'm an atheist they assume I'm immoral, yet when I find out someone is a theist I assume they are stupid. tit for tat

eowynn · 12-22-2002, 09:07 AM

I usually don't tell people here at home that I am an atheist. People at college find out rather quickly, as I have an evolve fish on my door and consistently refuse invitations to the many xian groups on campus. The xians take it fairly well when they find out, and only once have I had someone sit down and try and convince me otherwise. My atheism also comes up frequently in my Philosophy classes (especially because I am usually THE ONLY ONE arguing my position).

cricket · 12-22-2002, 09:41 AM

I don't talk about religion or atheism unless asked. I don't really talk about anything personal unless asked.

Everyone I work with is religious.

I did express some reservations Friday about how my daughter is considering a Catholic school (Boston College).

Boss (a Presbyterian who is proud of himself that earlier this year he learned a new word) "You're not 'agnostic', are you, cricket?"

cricket: "Worse"

Meanoldman · 12-24-2002, 03:08 AM

Most people that know me are aware that I do not pretend the existence of the grand-googoothwap-in-the-sky. I suppose that if someone can�t handle that it�s their own fault.

I don�t announce it to the world on a regular basis, generally I believe that it should not be an issue. Furthermore I don�t like to apply a label to myself based on the fact that the label does not serve my purpose as much as it serves the purpose of those that believe in a hierarchical social structure. � They really need to know what that label is so they know just where you fit in their society.

Generally atheists are not as vocal, I see two reasons for this. One is the social stigma attached to atheism and the stereotypes that are reinforced by the Christian-dominated society that we live in. The other reason is that atheists are not in it for profit. Religion is a business, and like any other business they need to advertise. Advertising brings converts, converts bring money, profits for the business increase.

Devin

B34RZ0R · 12-24-2002, 06:42 AM

I let people know if it comes up or I talk about one of my cover up tattoos (cover of a celtic cross). Then a lot of people think that I am a devil worshiper.. my MSN chat room nick is
Atheist-555 and some dude was trying to say because of my nick I had to be a satanist.. ok if I was a satanist wouldnt I have 666? and I said that numbers have no fhukking religious meaning (to me of course) and I said I dont believe in the devil either.. he then spouts this jewel; "you dont have to believe in God to believe in the devil" hmmm that was interesting..
Ok so I got a little off topic there sorry

Be Well
*Bear*

Belem · 12-24-2002, 07:14 AM

It feels terrible.

I just became atheist. I was living in the UK and now I am back in Mexico.

So, I have already had discussions with my mother, best friend, friends, etc. about the non existence of God.

I feel terrible, its like I am offending everybody when I give my arguments that support my beliefs. It is inevitable, every conversation is related to God, paranormal, seudoscience and it is almost impossible for me to stay quiet.

The problem is that I am hurting people�s feelings by denying God. It makes me sad too because I love them.

Belem

[ December 24, 2002: Message edited by: Belem ]

12-24-2002, 07:14 AM	#60
Belem Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mexico Posts: 27	It feels terrible. I just became atheist. I was living in the UK and now I am back in Mexico. So, I have already had discussions with my mother, best friend, friends, etc. about the non existence of God. I feel terrible, its like I am offending everybody when I give my arguments that support my beliefs. It is inevitable, every conversation is related to God, paranormal, seudoscience and it is almost impossible for me to stay quiet. The problem is that I am hurting people�s feelings by denying God. It makes me sad too because I love them. Belem [ December 24, 2002: Message edited by: Belem ]</p>

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12-21-2002, 11:03 AM	#53
Secular Elation Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: California Posts: 6,196	I never say a word about my nonbelief unless someone else brings up the subject. In fact, I would prefer to supress any expression of my nonbelief. I'm just a normal person like everyone else. There is no reason for me to proceed in public spouting my personal stances.

12-22-2002, 03:04 AM	#55
debaser71 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NY Posts: 20	"How vocal I am about being a non-believer varies proportionally with how vocal the people around me are about being believers. " tit for tat (is that the expression) Anyway it's funny how when people find out I'm an atheist they assume I'm immoral, yet when I find out someone is a theist I assume they are stupid. tit for tat

12-22-2002, 09:07 AM	#56
eowynn Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 58	I usually don't tell people here at home that I am an atheist. People at college find out rather quickly, as I have an evolve fish on my door and consistently refuse invitations to the many xian groups on campus. The xians take it fairly well when they find out, and only once have I had someone sit down and try and convince me otherwise. My atheism also comes up frequently in my Philosophy classes (especially because I am usually THE ONLY ONE arguing my position).

12-22-2002, 09:41 AM	#57
cricket Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: St Louis MO USA Posts: 1,188	I don't talk about religion or atheism unless asked. I don't really talk about anything personal unless asked. Everyone I work with is religious. I did express some reservations Friday about how my daughter is considering a Catholic school (Boston College). Boss (a Presbyterian who is proud of himself that earlier this year he learned a new word) "You're not 'agnostic', are you, cricket?" cricket: "Worse"

12-24-2002, 03:08 AM	#58
Meanoldman Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Missoula, Montana Posts: 25	Most people that know me are aware that I do not pretend the existence of the grand-googoothwap-in-the-sky. I suppose that if someone can�t handle that it�s their own fault. I don�t announce it to the world on a regular basis, generally I believe that it should not be an issue. Furthermore I don�t like to apply a label to myself based on the fact that the label does not serve my purpose as much as it serves the purpose of those that believe in a hierarchical social structure. � They really need to know what that label is so they know just where you fit in their society. Generally atheists are not as vocal, I see two reasons for this. One is the social stigma attached to atheism and the stereotypes that are reinforced by the Christian-dominated society that we live in. The other reason is that atheists are not in it for profit. Religion is a business, and like any other business they need to advertise. Advertising brings converts, converts bring money, profits for the business increase. Devin

12-24-2002, 06:42 AM	#59
B34RZ0R Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Lost in the Ether, Minnesota Posts: 1,436	I let people know if it comes up or I talk about one of my cover up tattoos (cover of a celtic cross). Then a lot of people think that I am a devil worshiper.. my MSN chat room nick is Atheist-555 and some dude was trying to say because of my nick I had to be a satanist.. ok if I was a satanist wouldnt I have 666? and I said that numbers have no fhukking religious meaning (to me of course) and I said I dont believe in the devil either.. he then spouts this jewel; "you dont have to believe in God to believe in the devil" hmmm that was interesting.. Ok so I got a little off topic there sorry Be Well Bear

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