slept2long

Examples?

Corwin

Well Germany around 1938 comes to mind.....

Dr Rick

When was the last time a non-Christian party lead the country? Or are American Blacks not allowed to run? If not then it isn't much of a "true" democracy. No, the USA is a theocracy since most of its laws are based on the Bible.

slept2long

Try again. Not even close to the situation in Israel. What were you saying earlier about leaving over generalized fantasies out of the discussion.....

Edited to add: I could see Israel institutiong some of the same policies against arabs though. It wouldn't work the other way around.

contracycle

It most certainly is relevant. The land transferes did not occur; therefore the resentment that had triggered the civili war in the first place remained. And festered to the point of the violence4 we have to day. Lesson being: fix don't fudge.

So you consider an entire populaiton only in terms of its leadership?
And who are you to say it is only about the people in power - it most certainly is not. Do ordinary indigineous zimbabweans not have minds and desires of their own in your world?

No, this is untrue - the famine substantially predates the land restorations, and the behaviour of white farmes was a major contributing factor to the famine - as I said, they were exporting food to the world market where they got better prices than the dmoestic market. Result - zimbabweans were farming food bu starving.

It is true that many now in possession of the land do not know how to farm it. Please not that the Zimbabwean government asked the white farmers for assistance, and it was denied. But more importantly, most people don;t care - they did not get to eat the food produced on those farms anyway, so they lost nothing.

Which is the outright racist assertion that a certain ethnic group cannot be trusted with democracy.

contracycle

Come come, people openly speculate if Colin Powell will be Pres some day. We all lnow that anyone who onpenly objected to a black candidate might as well dig their own political grave. And yes indeed, the theocratic underpinnings of America are of grave concern, but not nearly as grave as an ostentatiously theological state, run by and for a specific ethnic group. The two scenarios are not even remotely equivalent.

Dr Rick

You haven't even remotely made a case that the US is any more democratic that Israel; do you think talking about people talking about Collin Powell is a convincing argument?

What evidence do you have that Israel, which has a parlimentary system founded by avowed atheists and agnostics such as Herzl and Gurion, is a theological state?

Corwin

You are of course forgetting that Hitler was in fact voted into power, and his 'Final Solution' was in fact perfectly legal... because it was enacted under their law.

Flood the Israeli electorate with Hamas sympathizers, and there wont BE an Israeli electorate afterward.

Dr Rick

There does not seem to be a basic understanding of many posting here of what a theocracy is, or what rights and limits the inhabitants of greater Palestrine have.

There is only one theocracy in the ME: Iran.

Countries that discriminate on religious or ethnic criteria, as many countries both in and outside of the ME do, are not necessarily theocracies. Saudi Arabia, Israel, Jordan, Lebannon, Syria, and Egypt are not theocracies.

Here's a basic breakdown on what rights the inhabitants of Israel and the occupied territories have:

Israelis of Jewish descent:

Pay full taxes
Are obliged to serve in the Israeli army
Can attend any university in Israel
Are free to work in any workplace within the country
Have full voting rights

Arab Israelis, which make-up about 12% of eligilbe voters in Israel:

Pay full taxes
Are allowed to, but usually do not, serve in the Israeli army
Can attend any university in Israel
Cannot be employed in a sector of Israeli society deemed as 'high security'
Have full voting rights

Citizens in the West Bank and Gaza (under Palestinian Authority):

Are not Israeli citizens
Can petition the Israeli Supreme Court
Have legal rights within both Israeli and Palestinian controlled areas
Are not allowed to serve in the Israeli army
May not vote in Israeli elections

Loren Pechtel

Originally posted by contracycle
So you consider an entire populaiton only in terms of its leadership?
And who are you to say it is only about the people in power - it most certainly is not. Do ordinary indigineous zimbabweans not have minds and desires of their own in your world?

I'm saying the objective of the land transfers in Zimbabwe were to steal the land for the powerful. It was *CALLED* giving it to the people but that's not what happened.

No, this is untrue - the famine substantially predates the land restorations, and the behaviour of white farmes was a major contributing factor to the famine - as I said, they were exporting food to the world market where they got better prices than the dmoestic market. Result - zimbabweans were farming food bu starving.

I didn't hear of famine problems until after the land was transferred.

It is true that many now in possession of the land do not know how to farm it. Please not that the Zimbabwean government asked the white farmers for assistance, and it was denied.

Why in the world would they care? Their land was stolen at gunpoint and then they should help the thieves??

Which is the outright racist assertion that a certain ethnic group cannot be trusted with democracy.

This has nothing to do with racism or racial groups. It has to do with suddenly handing power to a group whose leaders have vowed to kill you.