Freethought & Rationalism Archive

simian · 05-28-2003, 06:35 AM

Then, of course, there is another leve of Omphalos - "last tuesdayism" - the belief that god created the universe with the appearance of age (including your memories) last tuesday, and humanity has until next thursday to come to the true belief, when the world is destroyed and they will be judged.

Simian

caritas · 05-28-2003, 08:27 AM

thanks all for your ideas. Work calls but I will be back shortly.

KC · 05-28-2003, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oolon Colluphid
Erm, yeah. Like why an allegedly intelligent and loving god would create stupid designs and monumental suffering, just to deceive us into thinking evolution�s the real answer!

Oolon

Maybe it's me, but to accept such a thing demonstrates a stunningly sheep-like lack of curiosity about one's god. The Lord is Thy Shepherd indeed.

KC

Jennie · 05-28-2003, 09:31 AM

I've always wondered why would anyone trust a god that would lie.

caritas · 05-28-2003, 04:37 PM

oolon and jennie,
I agree. If true, omphalos would make god into a deceiver. Why trust such a being? Probably why most YECs also hate the idea.

oolon,
I don't think she is aware of the moral problems which inefficient design and parasitism make for the idea. I havn't yet decided whether to press the issue.

ps418
She is aware the idea involves deception on god's part. Her answer, though worded differently than your humorus one ("God's just f---king around. Can't you take a joke?) is the same. This is one great cosmic joke.
I think this conclusion is basic to the omphalos idea. My original question (reworded somewhat) was :

is there some diversity among this minority subgroup of YECs holding omphalos view wherein some think god is playing a "nice" joke [atheists, scientists, liberal christians are NOT necesarily condemned simply for honestly seeking knowledge] verses another group which think god is playing a mean trick where we all get sent straight to Hell for falling into the trap?
My sister believes it is a nice joke; maybe even that there is some redeeming value to going on the wild goose chase god has laid out for the scientificly inclined. More than I can swallow but at least she sees doesn't condemn evolutionists.

About your brother. Yes that is remarkable. And sad.

Doubting Didymus · 05-28-2003, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by caritas
some diversity among this minority subgroup of YECs holding omphalos view wherein some think god is playing a "nice" joke [atheists, scientists, liberal christians are NOT necesarily condemned simply for honestly seeking knowledge] ...

My sister believes it is a nice joke; maybe even that there is some redeeming value to going on the wild goose chase god has laid out for the scientificly inclined. More than I can swallow but at least she sees doesn't condemn evolutionists.

I hope god will forgive me when, after I am halued before the white throne and informed of gods 'nice' little joke, I utterly fail to laugh in the appropriate manner.

Actually, if thats the best of gods stand-up comedy material, I do believe I shall heckle. Can you take rotten tomatoes with you through the eye of the needle?

(badoom boom tish! Yes folks! He's here all night! And for all eternity! SPLAT)

caritas · 05-28-2003, 04:54 PM

I think you should be able to sneak a few juicy ones through the needle's eye. I may do the same.

Doubting Didymus · 05-28-2003, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by caritas
I think you should be able to sneak a few juicy ones through the needle's eye. I may do the same.

So much for his Pure White Robes. He'll have to judge the sinners in his pyjamas while he sends them to the drycleaners.

Duvenoy · 05-28-2003, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oolon Colluphid
Caritas, I�m just wondering if this �appearance of age� she sees in the created world includes the deliberate creation of signs of history in living things� bodies (ie stupid designs), and the deliberate creation of Plasmodium and ichneumon wasps...?

Cheers, Oolon

Damn Oolon, I'd forgotten about the ichneumons. I've seen them work many times in the field. I once saw a couple of them drilling into a dead and seasoned elm, a very tough wood, as anyone who's tried to split it with maul and wedge it can attest. Amazing animals!

As for the 'appearence of age' argument, I just put it down to someone trying to mate the facts with their belief system (and failing). It's the sort of hopeful belief that Miss Cleo et. al. took great advantage of. I sincerly hope caritas' sister gets over this nonsense. Otherwise, she leaves herself open to ridicule and, if she's truly gullible, worse.

doov

Coragyps · 05-28-2003, 06:11 PM

Over at CreationTalk, the same poster who asked, with an apparently straight face, if we Evolutionists believed that Adam and Eve had navels wrote this in response to questions about SN1987A:

Quote:

You are trying to trick me and you know it. I drop a glass which breaks, you say I dropped the glass but I say the glass slipped out of my hand. You say to me, Mark did you drop the glass YES or NO! I say, well YES and NO because the glass both slipped out of my hand and I dropped it. I prefer to say it slipped, so NO!

In the same way, your supernova is 160 000 light years away but at the same time it is really not.
So to answer you, YES and NO.

What do you evikutionists think? Belly buttons, or smoothies?

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05-28-2003, 06:35 AM	#11
simian Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 1,924	Then, of course, there is another leve of Omphalos - "last tuesdayism" - the belief that god created the universe with the appearance of age (including your memories) last tuesday, and humanity has until next thursday to come to the true belief, when the world is destroyed and they will be judged. Simian

05-28-2003, 08:27 AM	#12
caritas Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tacoma, Wa Posts: 43	thanks all for your ideas. Work calls but I will be back shortly.

05-28-2003, 09:31 AM	#14
Jennie Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 3,593	I've always wondered why would anyone trust a god that would lie.

05-28-2003, 04:37 PM	#15
caritas Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tacoma, Wa Posts: 43	oolon and jennie, I agree. If true, omphalos would make god into a deceiver. Why trust such a being? Probably why most YECs also hate the idea. oolon, I don't think she is aware of the moral problems which inefficient design and parasitism make for the idea. I havn't yet decided whether to press the issue. ps418 She is aware the idea involves deception on god's part. Her answer, though worded differently than your humorus one ("God's just f---king around. Can't you take a joke?) is the same. This is one great cosmic joke. I think this conclusion is basic to the omphalos idea. My original question (reworded somewhat) was : is there some diversity among this minority subgroup of YECs holding omphalos view wherein some think god is playing a "nice" joke [atheists, scientists, liberal christians are NOT necesarily condemned simply for honestly seeking knowledge] verses another group which think god is playing a mean trick where we all get sent straight to Hell for falling into the trap? My sister believes it is a nice joke; maybe even that there is some redeeming value to going on the wild goose chase god has laid out for the scientificly inclined. More than I can swallow but at least she sees doesn't condemn evolutionists. About your brother. Yes that is remarkable. And sad.

05-28-2003, 04:54 PM	#17
caritas Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tacoma, Wa Posts: 43	I think you should be able to sneak a few juicy ones through the needle's eye. I may do the same.

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